When you think of Graphic Design, Bruce Lee might not be the first person that springs to mind, but the guy was (and is to this day) a legend.

His dedication to his craft and philosophical ideas changed the landscape of martial arts, and so much of what he stood for translates to the world of graphic design!

In this episode of The Angry Designer, join the bearded brutes  for another kick-a** episode where they explore what we, as Graphic Designers, can learn from the great Bruce Lee, and how to Design like Water. Through this episode you will discover:

– similarities between the arts
– the importance of simplicity
– Self expression and being true to your nature
– Adapting to change
– Dedication to your craft
and many more philosophical sayings

By the end of this episode, you will sing like a cat when you design like Bruce!

Design-like-water-Graphic-Design-Lessons-From-Bruce-Lee_mixdown

Massimo: [00:00:00] And he was a brilliant philosopher. Yeah. And one whole deck was just pictures of Bruce Lee clothed. Yeah. And decent. Just so you guys don't get any, don't get weird on me, but they all had quotes. Oh. And I was like, fuck, these are amazing. The shit that this dude used to say and his beliefs and everything.

I was just like, how does this apply to what we do? Yeah. And it totally did on so many levels. And I was like, dude, 

Shawn: I got, I got to, 

Massimo: we got to have an episode about Yes, 

Shawn: you, about the master graphic 

Massimo: design lessons 

Shawn: from Bruce 

Massimo: Lee. Okay. Because let me tell you, as badass as Beirut is, as Aaron Joplin is, as, as you know, Alan Peters is mm-hmm.

Nobody would fuck with Bruce Lee. This is true.

You're listen to the angry. Where we cut through the industry bull to help frustrated graphic designers [00:01:00] survive and thrive. 

Shawn: I know. Yeah. It's the mystery episode. So, 

Massimo: so again, you have no idea what, what, what, what topic we're talking about. How I have no 

Shawn: clue. Other than, other than the fact it's like almost torture.

No, this is great. I love this. Cuz other than these awesome phrases or sayings or things that you gave me Yeah. Earlier today. That's all I, that I have to go 

Massimo: off of this and I'm, and they're, and those things are like what you said, they're like Buddha like Yeah, very buden. Like or Yoda, you very Yoda. Like very philosophical.

Yes. Right, right. Yes. And so this is somebody who's, I guess he was a very famous person and very philosophical, huge, you know, back in, you know, seventies, eighties, I'm thinking fucking crazy. And he was probably, After he died, then he was before his death. Okay, so but you still had no idea after reading these?

I saw. No clue. So I don't even know what we call these. Mystery What? So today's podcast episode is called, Design, [00:02:00] like water graphic design lessons. It's your shirt from Bruce Lee. 

Shawn: It's staring me, right? I 

Massimo: actually, I actually got this printed today at 

Shawn: the mall to see if you'd notice. I've been dropping you all these little hints.

I've heard these quotes. The 

Massimo: water. Now you. Exactly. 

Shawn: Oh shit. I feel like an idiot. So, 

Massimo: so long story short, that's, you know, on the weekend I was cleaning out, you know, like my home office, the one that we talked about, how shitty it was. Right? Right. Yeah. And my own, our own episode inspired me to try to clean it up and just turned into better games because I'm like, I'm never gonna use it as a design firm.

And then I found, This. Oh, it's like Bruce Lee special edition playing cards. Wow. And I was like, oh man, I forgot I even had this. And it was, as a kid, I fucking idolized Bruce Lee. Bruce Lee was awesome. Like just, and I mean, I was just young and he was already long [00:03:00] dead by that time. Right. But again, all of his movies.

Right? Yeah. Anything that was Bruce Lee related. I just, because again, I was in fact a ninja as a child, and Bruce Lee was, you know, I followed in his footsteps and learned, and I probably thought I probably was Bruce Lee at some point or another when I was like little 5, 6, 7 years old. And so these special edition playing cards, right?

Mm-hmm. When I opened up, I'm like, wow, these are great. And one whole side had all little quotes from him. The dude was fucking brilliant. Right? I mean, he was, you know, he was an actor. He was a, one of the world's most, you know, uh, influential martial artist. He came up with his own martial arts Yeah. You know, style.

And he was a brilliant philosopher. Yeah. And one whole deck was just pictures of Bruce Lee clothed. Yeah. And decent. Just so you guys don't get any, get weird on me, but they all had quotes. Oh. And I. Fuck, these are amazing. The shit that this dude used to say and his beliefs and everything, I was just like, [00:04:00] how does this apply to what we do?

Yeah. And it totally did on so many levels and I was 

Shawn: like, dude, I got, I got to, 

Massimo: we got to have an episode about, yes. You know, the master graphic design lessons from. Lee. Okay. Because let me tell you, as badass as Beirut is, as Aaron Joplin is as, as you know, Alan Peters is mm-hmm. Nobody would fuck with Bruce Lee.

This 

Shawn: is true. This is true. So let's have an episode about this. No, not one of those guys could kick a fence post a thousand times. That's exactly it. Other than Bruce Lee. Other than Bruce Lee. Right. There 

Massimo: you go. So, so, so, unfortunately, okay. I couldn't find, I couldn't find, Bruce Lee has a whiskey. No, he doesn't.

He doesn't. And I couldn't, I couldn't even find a Chinese whiskey. Oh. Anywhere near us. But a close second is a Japanese whiskey. Oh right. Sunk with a bite. Right. Santui, I think we've, uh, you know, we, we can enjoy this one. So here's, you can start opening [00:05:00] up that bad one. And it's funny, we actually had an angry designer recommend that to us Oh no way.

Recently. Yeah. And he was just like, you should try this. We not had this. Yes we have. And I told him that. But it's been years since we've had this. It's been a long time. So I've thought it's been a long time. It's been alright. So. Alright. Just in case anybody has been living under a rock and has no fucking idea who Bruce Lee is.

Okay. He was one of the most influential martial. Of the 20th century. Right. Okay. He was born in San Francisco, California. He was. 

Shawn: He was American born. Yeah, he was 

Massimo: born American. Solid. Cheers my friend. Ooh. 

Shawn: That's not bad. 

Massimo: Okay. So it's very different than the bourbon and anything else. Like people are like, oh, you're teasing us on Bruce Lee now you're going 

Shawn: to 

Massimo: whiskey.

Shawn: How do you describe this? It's very 

Massimo: Scotty, so it has a little bit, not quite you, do you think Sco? Uh, without the, 

Shawn: without the pd. 

Massimo: Without the Pete. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really good, it's nice. This is not sweet. Mild. It's not sweet at all. Yes, but. It's also, it doesn't burn. It's not like it's still very [00:06:00] tasty, even though it's not sweet.

Yeah. 

Shawn: It's super clear. All right. 

Massimo: Okay, so he was, he was born Yes. In California nineteen, nineteen forty. Right. And then he spent most of his life going back and forth from Hong Kong in California. Okay. Okay. So he was, but, and I guess from that coast to that coast, it's a lot Chinese where we are probably, yeah, I'm, I'm not exactly too sure about, you know, that side.

Yeah. Obviously some of the most classic movies. Enter the dragon. Enter the dragon. Fists of fury, the return of the dragon. Like, I mean, there's nobody else like him, right? It was showmanship. Yep. Right. He was the guy with the who. Right. And he would have all of his, he would sound like a little cat and he'd light on his feet.

Yes. And uh, But he took what he did so fucking seriously that he wasn't just, I don't know, pastime for him. And sometimes people, they do martial arts and like, I'm a black belt, but I'm also this, this, no, this dude needs live this life and breathe this life. Right? He was so fucking passionate about it.

Right? Yes. And ultimately all of his philosophies and, and trying out and studying all philosophers and [00:07:00] everything, he ended up, you know, or other martial arts styles. Adapted his own style mm-hmm. And created . Right. 

Shawn: Chik, he 

Massimo: created his own thing. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And again, that's what was really kind of cool, because again, it was a very practical for, for his way of, of belief, his fighting style, right?

Mm-hmm. Very quick, very, you know, minimal, very simple. And again, it's just, it was everything he embraced. Hmm. So then it was like, okay, so obviously he's been a lifelong hero for me. Yeah. Okay. And, which I thought was really funny. And I'm like, well, you know, let's. Some comparisons are because, you know, as I started reading his like little, you know, philosophies, his little quotes, his little, you know, whatever his memoir if you want to call him.

Yep. You know, I was just like, holy shit. That applies to this, that applies to this. It all fucking applies. But just in general, you know, the similarities between. Martial arts. Mm-hmm. And graphic design. Mm-hmm. Or graphic arts if you want a card. Right. Okay. So there's a lot of similarities and people, you know, you, you would never think this.

Okay. But if we were to take the two and go side by side. [00:08:00] Right. Yeah. They both involve, you know, development of skills. Yes. Okay. They both involve creativity, problem solving, communication. Mm-hmm. Self-expression, discipline. Discipline. Right. I was just gonna say dedication and a. Mindset all to be successful.

Okay. Interesting. Yeah. So, and again, right off the bat, you're like, still, like, you know, it's, it's hard to believe the similarities between these two. Yeah. So they both require discipline and practice, right? Mm-hmm. Martial artists have to practice and train regularly, develop their skills, and graphic designers have to practice regularly to, to develop and refine and craft their skills and, and create effective designs Yes.

On a regular basis, right? Right. Both require. Okay. And people don't realize that martial arts does require creativity and innovation, especially when developing new techniques and, and kind of molding them to yourself. Well, graphic design of course, requires creativity on a regular basis, developing new visual concepts and ideas on an ongoing basis.

Right. Okay. Both involve problem solving. Right. Martial [00:09:00] artists have to, how to problem solve, how to, you know, beat their opponents. Yep. Okay. Yep. Graphic designers have to find ways. Problem solve, you know, messages, visuals, you know, their client's issues mm-hmm. On a regular basis. Right. Both involve self-expression.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Which we talked about. Yeah. You know, so you, when you become a, you know, a, a high level martial artist, you know, it's accepted to kind of develop your own style, your own, you know, sway your own swagger to it. Right. Same with designers. I mean, we're encouraged, especially with the designers that we've spoken to.

Right? Yeah. The Alan Peters, you know, the Aaron Lins, these guys, they all have their own look to feel their style. Right, 

Shawn: exactly. Same kind of. Disciplines. Right. A absolutely. It does. Same. Same, uh, uh What do you call that? What? The house that the Chinese, the, oh shit. Whoa. Where are you going with this? I don't know.

I dunno where I'm going with that. The, the, uh, you know where the, the dojo? Yes, the 

Massimo: dojos. Thank you. One Yes. One trains in the dojo. The other trains in 

Shawn: the studio. Exactly. On a radio. That's he's says 

Thank 

Massimo: you. No, no, no. [00:10:00] And both require. And dedication. Yes. Okay. So again, martial arts, you know, and graphic design, both require deep passion.

Mm-hmm. You know, for this lifelong journey that those two things will take you on. Yeah. So it's funny, I mean, other than music, which I found similarities in music, but that would be something you can cover in the future. Mm-hmm. But again, I was just like kind of like, Getting so jazzed up about this. Cause I'm like, holy shit.

Like this would be a real fun episode. Yeah. Because again, no, everybody knows Bruce Lee. Dude, I asked, you know my son who's like nine. I'm like, do you know who Bruce Lee is? He's, yeah, of course. And I'm talking, that was like over half a century ago for this guy. And he was like, he's been deaf. I. Yeah. Sex in 73.

73. Right. So he's been dead for over like, well, almost 50 years. Yes. So again, crazy. Right. Wow. And it's just his legend lives on. Yeah. But it's not because he was the best martial artist. Mm-hmm. Okay. Cuz I'm sure there was better martial artists. Any, [00:11:00] anybody could argue this. Right. But it was just everything he brought to the world of martial arts and what he did for Marsh martial arts in North America.

Yes. That has made. You know, a martial art icon. Yeah. Right? And and I think there's so much there that we can embrace, right? Mm-hmm. So again, he was really interested in philosophy. Yeah. Okay. And this is where he started breaking the mold of just being a regular movie star and a regular martial artist.

And he became something much. Bigger. Yeah. Okay. He believed in such a bigger journey, right? He studied a wide range of, you know, philosophical traditions, like, you know, Taoism, oh Buddhism, you know, Zen. And he developed his own philosophy of martial arts, which emphasized the importance. Okay. And here's the kicker, right?

The importance. Of simplicity. Mm-hmm. Personal expression. Oh my God. Adaptability. And perseverance. He could be talking 

Shawn: about design, so 

Massimo: this is why I'm just like, holy shit, you holy. Yeah. Right. 

Shawn: That's crazy. Here we go. So, yeah. 

Massimo: Okay. Wow. So [00:12:00] let's, let's start on this a little bit. Okay. Okay. Okay. So the importance of simplicity.

Mm-hmm. In design or in martial arts. Yeah. Okay. Yep. Bruce Lee said one does not accumulate, but eliminate it is not daily increase, but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity. Okay. And again, this is something that we see the entire design world is just kind of pulling back on right now.

Yes. Every logo, every logo. That principle. Yeah. And how we pitch our logos. We're like, always keep it simple. Right? Don't push it anymore. Yeah. We just had a great, you know, couple episodes with Alan Peters. Mm-hmm. Again, he embraced simplicity, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So again, according to Bruce Lee, true mastery comes not from.

Accumulating more techniques and knowledge. Mm-hmm. But from an eliminating the unnecessary. Right. So he's saying to be a total master, you don't have to learn 20, 30, 50 [00:13:00] different martial arts techniques. Nope. It's about mastering the core techniques and, and refining them to a point where they become like second nature.

Mm-hmm. Where there's muscle memory built in and. Automatically not even thinking anymore and doing it. Right. Right. So that's what he's talking about, is about pairing back. So don't pull everything in to get better and better, like everybody thinks it's, it's a matter of simplifying. Yeah. And just focusing on the core.

So now this applies to graphic design in two ways. Mm-hmm. Okay. So the importance of simplicity in design. Mm-hmm. Just like we talked about. Mm-hmm. You know, you need to pull back and focus on the message. On the actual intent, right? You don't keep adding and adding and adding pieces to, to, to get a message across.

Right. You take things away, right, right. To till there's just a bare minimum to focus in on delivering the perfect message. The perfect design, right? Yeah. You know, you're prioritizing clarity in what you're seeing and what you're delivering. Right? Yes. You're not cluttering it up. Yes. With all that, that [00:14:00] visual noise.

Yes. That was it, Vinali said, right? Yes, yes, yes. Right. So that's the importance of simplicity and design. Yep. What about simplicity in a designer? Mm. Okay. So the importance, simplicity in designer. This gives you a chance to know, simple down and focus on your craft. Right? So it's so easy to get caught up in everything that's online right now, right?

Yeah. And you're thinking, oh, I can do some motion graphs. Yeah, I 

Shawn: wanna do this. I wanna be, yeah, yeah. Right. I'll be a more marketable person. A more marketable designer. No. Right. 

Massimo: Or even that. Even go fucking watch TikTok and, and Instagram and, and whatever, and this video is on. Are you doing a shadow like that?

You're wrong. Don't do it like that. Do it this way. And she's like, dude, I've been fucking doing a shadow like this for 20 

Shawn: years. Yes. And it always works and it works fine. 

Massimo: So I'm glad there's a new way to do it. And you're telling me I'm wrong, but fuck off. I'm gonna focus on some other shit. Right. I hate that shit.

Right, right. But again, it's like focusing on your craft as a designer. [00:15:00] Right. Focusing on the important things. Don't focus in all the, the visual all, all the, all the noise in apps and how to do this better and how to do it. No. You know what I mean? You can do a drop shadow, you can do a drop shadow, do it your way.

Focus on your craft, focus on, you know, your core design principles. Yeah. Instead of trying to embrace every single trend that's coming out. Mm-hmm. Worry about the principles of it all. Right. Right. On the simplicity, refining your skills, you know, eliminating unnecessary programs and techniques and just focusing on the basics.

Yes. So again, That's Bruce Lee number one. Okay. I love it. All right, that's awesome. And got three more. Okay. And then we got some more things after that. Okay. So number two, right? Self-expression and being true to one's self. Mm. Okay. So Bruce Lee said, Adapt what is useful, reject what is useless, and add what is specifically your own.

Mm-hmm. Right. So again, now [00:16:00] thinking back to some of the people that we've interviewed mm-hmm. Take it back to some of the, you know, our little, our heroes are huge heroes, right? Yep. He believed Bruce Lee believed that martial arts should be a personal expression of yourself. Mm-hmm. Okay. He encouraged his students to develop their own style and to be true to themselves.

Right. This whole idea and men mentality, right? Mm-hmm. This philosophy can be applied to graphic design when, when we push designers to, to use their own unique perspective on their approach, right? Use their own experience, right? Mm-hmm. When Alan was telling us how he was over at Target, right? This helped him develop a new style that he carried on into his, you know, all, all his experience up until that point, and then he left Target, he developed his own look, his own feel, his own style, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So, again, you know, personal style can. Interests, right? Your own personal interests, your, your niches that you maybe, you know, your interests can lead to nicheing, right? Yep. It can lead to experiences, passions, even your culture in that sense, right? It's saying use what you have and put [00:17:00] it into your work.

Right. And again, I think that's what separates a blank mindless graphic designer to one who's really passionate about what they're actually creating on a regular 

Shawn: basis. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We've had. Here that never had that kind of discipline and just no. Wanted to do basic stuff and, and you know what I mean?

And it's like that's kind of sad. It is sad. But then they don't really have 

Massimo: that, they didn't want to push alert. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. They were production artists in 

Shawn: the end. That's basically what it was, which is a discipline unto itself. And 

Massimo: if you're good judge there. Yeah, exactly. Exactly right. But that's not 

Shawn: what we're here to talk about today.

Yeah, that's exactly it. Right. 

Massimo: Personal or self-expression and being true to oneself. Right. You can experiment with different techniques, you know, styles that can help designers work for what's best for them and their clients and their industry. By embracing this self-expression philosophy of Bruce Lee, designers can stand out and, and resonate with their intended audience, right?

Yeah. So again, I was in everything to everybody. But definitely when it came to that B2B market [00:18:00] mm-hmm. I had experience, yeah. The B2B tech market, I knew what to say. I knew how to say it. I knew, you know, what would stand out, what would be going too far and what would just kind of blend in everywhere.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. So I knew how to ride that line. Yeah. To help me get to where I was. And that was, that was who I became. Mm-hmm. And then again, if you can embrace your self-expression, this will help designers build their. Brands, their own personal brands, which is important. Right. And this will help them differentiate from their competitors.

From the competitors. Yeah. Okay. Right. So again, this whole self-expression of being true to oneself, he was really big on this. Mm. And I think that this stays so true. Yeah. To designers. Oh yes. Oh, big time. Okay. This one, this one here is my favorite one. And, and my shirt, yes. You see this guys? 

Shawn: Yeah. 

Massimo: Yeah. It is awesome.

This one is adapting to change. Yeah. Be like water. Okay. This is what br Okay. This was his, have you seen that? I interview 

Shawn: with him when he was, when he's talked about that. Oh yeah. I know. It's amazing the way he, the way he talks. 

Massimo: He's so calm. So, and the. [00:19:00] Be Oh, beautiful. And he's just got that, that slight accent.

Yeah. You know, in there he almost sounds like, are you Asian? Are you just from San Diego? Like, are you, where, where are you coming from? Okay. Be like, water. All right. Yeah. So Bruce Lee said, Empty your mind. Be formless. Shapeless like water. You put water into a cup, it becomes the cup. You put water into a bottle, it becomes the bottle.

You put it in a teapot. It becomes the teapot. Water can flow or it can crash. Be water, my friend. I fucking love that like. 

Shawn: So deep. That is, that is awesome. 

Massimo: So he was a master of adapting his martial arts style to different situations and opponents. Yeah. Okay. Mm-hmm. You saw the movies, you saw some of his small fights.

Someone was giant. He would totally change his fighting style. Exactly. Versus somebody much smaller. Right? Right. So in martial arts, the whole being like water means being adaptable to different situations, [00:20:00] opponents environments. Okay. Mm-hmm. So this can also be applied to graphic design. And graphic designers, and I don't even think I need to explain this one cuz God knows we riff on this all the time, right?

Mm-hmm. Designers should be adaptable and flexible in their approach to life, to their approach to design. Mm-hmm. To clients, to the industry. They should be open to change. Mm-hmm. And willing to adjust their, you know, their strategies, their design. As required. Exactly. Okay. Again, if you are a hard ass designer and you've got, it's my way of the highway.

Exactly right. You're, you're fighting the wrong battle here. You're done. Yeah. Yes. You will be done. You'll have a very short stint if you're really good. Yeah. But you're not gonna be able to last cuz you can't adapt. Yes. Well, 

Shawn: Niagara Falls has rushing water that can crash shit. It does, but it only does.

It does that. Right. That's it. You gotta be, you gotta be fit into that teapot. You gotta be fit into the glass. 

Massimo: Absolutely. Come. So again, it's, this is crucial to graphic designers on so many levels. Mm-hmm. Okay. So obviously we need to [00:21:00] evolve and stay ahead of trends, you know, and we have to stay ahead of client needs.

Yep. On a regular basis, you know, we need to stay up to date with, you know, technologies and con continually, you know, adapt and evolve as the technologies have, right? Yep. Yep. I mean, again, AI is everywhere right now. Boy, did it ever save our bacon? Holy shit, didn't it? Right. And see, see how quick it was. It was, I know.

So, you know, and if we were stubborn mm-hmm. And didn't want to adapt to these changes, I would still be on fucking Google. You'd still be doing that. Right. Looking for S flow. Fucking S flow. S flow. So you know, again, if you adapt, you can help problem solve. Mm-hmm. With your customers as opposed to walking in and only seeing things a single way.

You can adapt and you. Ask them the questions. Right. Because these are all problem solving skills that, you know, problem solving in general is all about adapting. Mm-hmm. It's all about asking the right questions. Hearing the answers. Yeah. Listening closely and then changing what you're gonna do based on that.

Just like in martial arts, right? Yes, exactly. And again, this all comes around [00:22:00] to this growth. Mindset that Bruce Lee was very, very fond of, right? Yes. It's important for staying motivated and continually improving in the face of uncertainty and challenges. Okay, so embrace a growth, embrace a growth mindset.

Yes. A hot topic right now online, right? Is it really? It is. It is. And, and I mean, the reality is if you're closed to, you know, constantly, you know, absorbing and willing to adapt and willing to, what is the word I'm bringing? All these new knowledges out there. Mm-hmm. You, you're never gonna grow. Yeah.

You're, you're just gonna be stuck in the 

Shawn: water. Yeah. But do you find sometimes there's a saturation point? There's too much to learn nowadays? Yes, I do. I, I, I tend to get un overwhelmed sometimes. I do 

Massimo: every day around five o'clock. So that's, that's when I pour myself a drink and I'm like, all right, I'm ready for some more.

You know, it is, it is overwhelming and I had a great conversation with somebody yesterday about ai. Hmm. A [00:23:00] very good friend of mine, and again, he's so fucking smart, this guy, and he's one of the best designers I know. Hmm. And um, for us, we're very fortunate. We have all this experience behind us. Mm-hmm.

Okay. So I think for us, all we have to do is keep adapting to technologies that moves forward. Yeah. You know, the younger designers have got a completely different road ahead of them. Mm-hmm. Because they're gonna be both learning design. And keeping up with all these new technologies. Design alone takes a lifetime.

Exactly. It's a lifetime journey. Just to understand the basic, you know, principles, the design, principles of design and how to start, I don't even wanna say perfect them because No, I don't think, you never do ever perfect it, right? Nope. I don't think I've ever seen a perfect design. Nope. But you know, when you have these next designers coming up, Double the battle, I think, and in some ways it might be easier.

Yeah. You know, because then in some ways, maybe AI in the future will do 90% of the design for them. Right. Maybe design will come out looking perfect every single time. Yeah. But then is it gonna be authentic? Is it gonna feel Right. Authentic. Right, right. Then all of a sudden it's like, you know what [00:24:00] we deemed as perfect design maybe needs to be scaled back as a little bit imperfect.

Exactly. Maybe people need, you know, so it's, it's gonna be an interesting road ahead of Yes. 

Shawn: That's very cool. Yeah. I see it as proofs. You could use this stuff as a sample. Mm-hmm. And then you look at it like what we do with, with clip art. Mm-hmm. Things like that. Right. Like an icon. You take an icon, it's close to what I want.

Grab it, adapt it. Yep. This is what I think the AI thing is gonna be like. Absolutely. And then it gives it that human feel. Absolutely. Which you're talking about. Yeah. What you absolutely needs. Maybe, I don't know. Maybe that's not 

Massimo: No, I think, no, but I mean, again, that works with even what we're talking about, adapting it all together, right.

Adapting to change, and you're right. Adapting everything to suit you. Yeah. Right. And again, otherwise, what you'll be doing is taking something, your example of an icon and just dropping it in. Yeah. And that's, 

Shawn: and it's not yours. No. No, it's not. You're using 

Massimo: somebody else's stuff. All right. Yeah. The fourth point here.

Mm-hmm. Okay. For his philosophies, his beliefs. Mm-hmm. Dedication, rigorous training, and [00:25:00] mastery to your craft. Okay. So Bruce Lee said, do not pray for an easy life. Mm. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one, dude. And I fucking love that more than anything else cuz I am a, I'm a firm believer that you don't learn anything from your successes.

No. You learn from your failures. Mm-hmm. The more time you fail, you stumble what you're gonna remember. How to get back up and not stumble against. Exactly. Right. And that's what this is about. This is why I'm. Big nut over this perseverance. Mm-hmm. You know, and it's just helped me overcome every one of those hiccups.

Yeah. Just had somebody reach out on Instagram and, I mean, she was just, she felt she, poor girl felt so beaten down. Mm. And I was just like, dude. And she was saying that she needed to hear a perseverance episode. She was like, I really needed to hear this. And I was just like, man, if I, if I could reach out and give you a virtual hug, I would, but you know what?

Don't fret it ju it gets better. Yeah. Every time it gets better. Yep. And it's gonna get to a point [00:26:00] where you can almost call every one of these things. Yes. So, you know, he was known for his rigorous training. Yeah. Bruce Lee was Right. His dedication and mastered of craft, like the, just the amount of time he would just learn to master the stuff.

There was Return of the Dragon, the movie Return of the Dragon, right. Yeah. There was supposed to be a Nunchuck scene. Mm-hmm. In that. Okay. And if you see him in that nunchuck scene, It's just, it looks like it's sped up. It looks like it's just outta this world. It, it looks fake. It looks cgi. Right. That's real.

That was real. Oh, the funny thing is, three months to that. Yeah. He never picked up a pair of nunchucks in his life. Oh my God. So he learned this and he learned all of it. He did it. He trained every day. He was like, I'm gonna fucking own this. I'm gonna make these dumb checks, my bitch. And he did, he trained his ass off.

And this scene is just, it doesn't even look real. And it was all legit. Oh my God. Right. So it's, it's that kind of dedication, right? Mm-hmm. So graphic designers can apply similar principles, you know, to improve. Their skills. Yeah. And then stay motivated, right? We [00:27:00] talk about becoming weekend experts mm-hmm.

When you need to, right? Mm-hmm. Do it when you get into a problem, you know, we can all, we can all benefit from being, um, you know, more disciplined in what we do. Yep. Okay. And that's fine. And, and, and this involves a little bit more than just like, making sure you put things in your calendar and such. This also, you know, involves setting goals for yourself.

Mm-hmm. You know, seeing where you want to go and, Hitting that. Right? Yeah. You know, establishing routines, you know, that give you some, you know, regular practice time, not just work time. Yes. Right. It's easy to get involved in work time. Yeah. But then when you don't have time for you, you're never gonna get better at things, you're never gonna be able to explore.

And again, it's just, it's fresh off of off of us right now, but Alan Peters said mm-hmm. You know how he gives himself so much personal projects. Yeah. Right. Because he feels he can grow and he can do more on those, you know, personal or passion projects. Yes. As he called them. Right. He also, Bruce Lee also emphasized the importance of practicing techniques, and I think I mentioned this before, until they become ingrained into your muscles.

The muscle memory. Muscle memory. Yeah. [00:28:00] This is a legit thing. So he did that, of course, for martial arts. Mm-hmm. Which is totally cool, but you know, graphic designers can do this also. Right. You start practicing enough. Right. You know, anything that became difficult, like understanding white space. Mm-hmm.

Understanding typography, knowing you know, what works, what doesn't work, right? Mm-hmm. The more you do this, the better you get. Easier. This stuff comes on a regular basis. Yep. And there is muscle memory. We just have it very differently. Yes. I was just teaching a co-op today about, yeah. Fucking developing muscle memory in his hands to do proper shading.

Right. Yeah, 

Shawn: exactly. Yeah. No, that's, that's absolutely true. Uh, our muscles are our brains. Right. You know what I mean? Like that, that's kind of the discipline that, that we're using. Yeah. Right. But yeah, like you've, you've, we've done, we've all done, you know, these things. Several things like the social posts and Oh, God, yeah.

PowerPoints, things like that. It's just. You know. Well, as soon as you get it, you look at it, scan it, boom. Okay, here we go. And you've already, your, your brain 

Massimo: is already beep beep. Yeah. And you're able to just slot [00:29:00] things in like Lego, right? Yes, exactly. Just 

Shawn: like Lego. Oh, Alan, yes. Yeah. Yeah. That was his thing too.

You talked about Lego. Yeah, exactly. See, you were fresh off that Alan interview. I know. We're so jacked over that. Oh my God. And then 

Massimo: lastly, of course, his dedication and perseverance, that whole. Can be applied to graphic design, and to me that's like one of, you know, the, I'm constantly harping about perseverance and being the difference, right?

Yeah. We as graphic designers are often faced with challenges, all kinds of challenges. Mm-hmm. Time challenges, customer challenges, you know, overloaded work challenges. Mm-hmm. On a regular basis, right? Yeah. Tight deadlines. It keeps going, but if we adopt this mindset of perseverance and actually look forward to working, These challenges, right?

Yeah. Design, you can develop this resilience and a strong work ethic, you know, to overcome these things. Mm-hmm. And then, you know, the challenge, not the challenge, but you know, the reward is if you do this enough, Okay. And this is what I genuinely believe often [00:30:00] when we're confronted with these challenges.

Yep. We look forward to the end of the challenge and we're like, no, no, no. I'm gonna solve it. I'm, I, I can't wait till this is all done. I can't, dude. It's the wrong attitude. Right. Don't look forward to this part being over. Yeah. Enjoy the rush. The journey to get. Through it. Yeah. Because then the next time you come up to it, yep.

Right. You're like, oh shit, I've done this already. Mm-hmm. I can fucking do this again. Mm-hmm. It's, again, it's a different mindset Yes. That you need to take Yes. When you have these problems. Right. Dude, I remember telling you like, I mean, we were almost broke once. Mm-hmm. You know, and, um, I thought we were like minus 17 grand in the hole.

Right. And, and I was like, we had a customer that was like, you know, basically dumped us. They scrapped out on us for like, like 40 grand. Yeah. So here was like 40 grand. We lost this customer, big customer. Plus it was, you know, 40 grand gone. So our, that was pretty much all of my receivables. That's everything at that time.

Yeah. I had a staff back then of five, and I thought we were like minus 17 grand in the hole. And I'm like, oh, fuck what we gonna do. Right. [00:31:00] Talked to my bookkeeper and I'm just like, wow. Well, I guess that's it, because you know, my credit limit was only minus 20 grand. Yeah. That you're, you're, so I was three grand out.

Like, that's it, right? Yeah. And she's like, no, no, no, no. We're not minus 17. Yeah, we're plus 17 grand. So all the sudden I'm like, shit, wait a minute. I still have a chance. I still have 17 grand plus credit of 20 grand. Yeah. I can make this do it. And that's what it was. I. I can do this. And I got excited and all of a sudden it was like locked in my office, picked up the phone, made some more phone calls.

Got Yeah. Because I, I knew the journey. Yeah. You know, if I was done and I was looking forward, oh God, when's this gonna be over? This soon too will pass. Yes. Wrong attitude. Yes. Right. I don't like this. This soon too will pass statement that everybody seems to embrace and Oh, you know, just stick it out.

Yeah. And you'll get through it. Fuck that. Make yourself get through it. Yes. Right. Like, Tighten up your laces, go for that journey, and then this time, next time you're, you're confronted with the same journey, just get [00:32:00] through this fucking thing. Exactly. Exactly. 

Shawn: Ah, geez. It's like what you talked about with Bruce Lee when he, he faces a foe that's 

Massimo: bigger than him.

Yep. Absolutely. 

Shawn: Absolutely. You don't do the, you don't do the same fucking thing you would normally do. Right. You adapt. 

Massimo: You adapt. It's like you need 

Shawn: to adapt. Yeah. So, and you did absolutely did that. Yeah. By saying, you know what, Hey, I'm turning this negative into a positive. I still got a 

Massimo: fighting chance.

Right. And that's exactly it. Because again, and here we are, I appreciated the journey. Yeah. I didn't go into, on my office, crawl up in the 

Shawn: corner, cried. Exactly. What are we gonna do? Which you totally could have done. Yeah. But, That does not serve the purpose. Mm-hmm. That doesn't get to you. That doesn't get you to where, 

Massimo: you know, that gets your ass kicked 

Shawn: buddy.

It does. Exactly. That's what happens. You just fold up and then well, you're done. 

Massimo: Right. So those are the four principles that, you know, he believed in his martial arts. But how I want to finish this off Okay. Is I also got and collected some of these other amazing fucking Bruce Lee quotes again, and after hearing this, you'll know why he's so fucking awesome.

Yes. Okay. Yes. And these, I feel, [00:33:00] can all adapt to graphic design. These are his, you know, his quotes, his sayings based on his own philosophies. But dude, like, like this one. Number one, most people can talk without listening. Very few can listen. Without talking. So again, D I'm sorry, what did you say? 

Shawn: Yeah, were you listening?

I was listening, yes. That's 

Massimo: fucking awesome. This whole fucking idea of that. You know, often, too often we spend too much time talking. Yeah. We've got two ears in one fucking mouth. Yeah. For a reason. Yeah. We need to shut the hell up. Yeah, that's right. And listen a lot more, you know, when we're talking to customers, even if you have the answer, even if you know the path mm-hmm.

You've gotta give them the respect to shut, you know, to shut yourself up. Yep. Listen to 'em and see if there's something else there that you can, you know, take and, and use on, you know, on your whole. Problem solving strategy moving forward. Right, exactly. 

Shawn: And I remember you saying that when we were with a client, when you know exactly what it is, the problem that needs to be solved.

Yeah. You don't blurt it out. Say, yeah, I got this, I [00:34:00] got this. No, you let them talk. You listen to them. Absolutely. Cause you never know, but you 

Massimo: know. Yeah, absolutely. Right. 

Shawn: But that's exactly, that's it. Right. And that's just respect. And that's just 

Massimo: good to have. But you know what's funny? So with what you just said mm-hmm.

That's another quote here. What? Okay, hold on. I'm quo him now. Now based, based on what you just said. Okay. Look, he, Bruce Lee said, If I tell you I'm good, you'll say I'm boasting. If I tell you I'm not good, you'll know I'm lying. Oh, so this goes hand in hand with what you just said? Yes. About the customer.

Mm-hmm. You can tell the customer, I got your problem. I got your problem. I got your But yeah. And the customer's gonna be like, fuck, this guy's an arrogant dude. Yeah, right. Geez. You're not gonna say you're not good. Yeah. Because then they're gonna be like, well, that's not why you're here. Yeah. Yeah. You know?

So better to be on, you know, on the side of humility. Yes. And quiet. Yes. And then have them understand Yeah. This, this is that whole idea about, you know, like humility is important Yes. As a designer. Yeah. And I [00:35:00] genuinely believe, and, and without humility, we can't understand our own customers. Mm-hmm. Right.

So don't, don't worry about having to oversell yourself and tell them how great you are. Yeah. Right? Yeah. But at the same. Don't fucking play yourself down. That's right. As well. Right, because then they're gonna know you're lying as well. 

Shawn: Exactly. 

Massimo: Exactly. All right. This one's my favorite one, right? Bruce Lee said, I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick.

10,000 times. So if there's ever a case for nicheing 

Shawn: Yeah. That's the one, yes. That is the leg 

kick 

Massimo: niche. Right? The leg kick. I love kick niche. And what he's saying is it's like, you know, who cares if you your bag of tricks and you've got a million different things up your sleeves. Yeah. If you, if you can't do any of them any good, you're not good at 

Shawn: a round house kicked and fucking why use it?

Yeah. You know what I mean? 

Massimo: So this kind of goes back to this whole idea. Be good at something. Yeah. Be really good at something, whether it's a niche, whether it's an industry. Mm-hmm. Whether it's [00:36:00] a specific design skillset. Right. Yep. And again, right now it's kind of scary when it comes to, you know, the whole AI thing.

Mm-hmm. And it's coming after your job and you know, if it's, if it's a certain skillset you have, but I mean, again, nicheing into industries, nicheing into passions into a certain direction. Mm-hmm. There's nothing wrong with that at all. No. And I mean, that's what's gonna get people through all this. Yeah.

So I think that's a brilliant, brilliant phrase for that 

Shawn: is that is pretty awesome. Holy. Right. That's really good. 

Massimo: All right, ready? How about this one? If you spend too much time thinking about one thing, you'll never get it done. So. Again, applying this to graphic design. Yeah. Okay. How many people focus so much on trying to perfect a piece of art?

Yeah. Trying to perfect a job. They spend so much time fiddling, fiddling, and fiddling. Mm-hmm. The job never fucking gets done. Okay. The reality is customers don't want perfection. They want delivery. They want somebody to. On a regular basis. Yep. Right? And if you're constantly fucking [00:37:00] around and messing around because you're not happy about this and you're seeking for this higher level of perfection, dude, you're just never gonna deliver.

Nope. This whole point about if you spend too much time about a thing, thinking about a thing, you're never gonna actually do anything. You're never gonna get it done. Exactly. In my opinion, if I were to put this to design, it's a matter of, you know, stop sooner. Mm-hmm. Get shit out faster. That's right.

Plain civil. That's right. Get shit 

Shawn: done. And this is the kind of thing where your, your client's gonna make iterations anyway, right? Yeah. So maybe you were on the wrong track. You'd wanna stop that before spending weight. This is the worst part is like if you're on the wrong track and you spend all that fucking time on it.

Ooh, that's not good. So true, dude. Yes, so true. Yeah. So this is the kind of thing where you, you like little more centered, uh, yes, please. Yeah, that's, that's really nice. That's, it's good. It's good. Yeah, it's very, it's look at how it. It 

Massimo: becomes the glass. It becomes, ooh, eh, the 

Shawn: whiskey. The whiskey becomes the glass.

Be like whiskey. Be like whiskey. Maybe we could do that. Sorry, bru. We're gonna adapt your be [00:38:00] like whiskey. Be like whiskey. 

Massimo: How about this one? Okay. Be a practical dream. Backed by action. So again, I think this one is actually really business focused and can be business focused, right? Yeah. Because what it's saying is, you know, we always talk about not every single job that comes through here mm-hmm.

Is gonna be an award-winning job. No. A lot of it's pay. Pay the bills type stuff. It is, right? It is. This is words be a practical dreamer. So the dream part is look for living. I'm fucking doing art every day. I'm fucking drawing every day. But the practical part is, It's a fucking job. Yeah. And I have bills to pay.

So not every single customer right off the start can be, you know, an award-winning customer and I can't pick and choose that. So be practical about this dream, but backed by action. Go for those dream jobs. Yes, yes. Okay. Exactly. So again, over the past 25 years, the first fuck. I would like to say the first 24 years have been like, hell shit.

Customers in the last one year has been amazing customers. Okay. [00:39:00] Maybe more like 15 and 10, 15 years, 10 years. But the reality is it took that long. It took a long time to get to the point where it's like, now we've got our billion dollar customers. Yes. And that's what we always wanted was a billion dollar brand.

And then we didn't have one. We didn't do, we ended up having five or six back to back to back. Right. So again, Practical dreamer. We took the shit up front. Yep. We worked through that shit. Even though it was still a dream, we, we still did it all. Yep. And then again, backed by action, so we got 

Shawn: there. That's exactly it.

Yeah. That's great. Okay. I think that works. That's 

Massimo: good. I like it. Okay. Ready? Woo. Life itself is your teacher and you are in a state of constant learning 

Shawn: now that I like. Yeah, right. That is good. What do we talk about all the time on 

Massimo: a regular basis? Always learning here to being a designer is a journey of learning, right?

It is. It's all a journey of learning. It is. And 

Shawn: design is life. So you're always learning 

Massimo: through this, right? Absolutely. Right. And I think that one's perfect, right? Yes. So again, that's great. Just embrace it. Expect it. [00:40:00] Yeah. How about this one? Success is a journey. Not a destination. Hmm. Have faith in your abilities and you'll do just fine.

Yeah. Beautiful. Yes. Right. And again, I have oftentimes had had many people reach out on Instagram, you know, private message, say, Hey, you know what, I'm just starting in this, I'm just going to school. I'm just new with this. Mm-hmm. You know, things or, or, or they have a question. I'm like, you know what? You just started an amazing journey.

Enjoy every step. It's not gonna be good. Yep. It's not gonna be great. Yeah. But again, this is what success is. Yeah. Right. Success is going through the good, going through the bad, and kind of making a life out of it. Mm-hmm. So that's why this is such a beautiful thing. Have faith in your abilities. Yeah.

Know what you're good at as a designer. Yep. Know, be confident and keep getting better and better every day with every new step in your journey. Yep. And you'll do just 

Shawn: fine. Yeah. This is when I was kicked out of this business. Yep. And slugging groceries around. Ah, I still. Stayed true [00:41:00] to, I knew I could do this shit.

Mm-hmm. And then you reached down and grabbed me and pulled me out of the muck and here I am. You know what I mean? Like this is, this is kind of one of those scenarios where it's just like, yes, be true to yourself. Always believe in what you can do. Yep. I always knew I could do this. I just needed the opportunity.

Right. Ah, and that's the kind of thing. Yeah. Geez. Ah, I'm glad you 

Massimo: cheers to that one, brother. Yay. All right. All right. We're only got like one or two more ready. Okay. These are great. Okay. Second last one. Okay. What you habitually think. Largely determines what you will ultimately become. Ooh. So if anybody ever has imposter syndrome, oh, okay.

Just remember, if you keep thinking you're not good enough, you're not good enough, you won't be good enough. Ah, and that's what this is. You know what you habitually think is what you become. Okay, so again, it's okay to kind of have a imposter syndrome. The thing is, you've gotta get over this shit that's [00:42:00] exactly it, and get what you're worth.

Right. Okay. You've gotta get out there, get paid for what you're worth, get the work that you're worth. Yeah. You know, and become who you are. I mean, again, I still struggle with them. Imposter syndrome sometimes I still, you know, I, I think everybody does two, one state or another. Totally, totally. You know, if I hear somebody else speak about branding, I'm like, They're really good.

Yeah. Doesn't mean I suck. No, you're right. It just means, hey, there's somebody else who's really good. Exactly. And that's, Hey. Yeah. Bruce Lee fought Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris almost kicked Bruce Lee's ass. Okay. Just sing. Just sing. Okay. In the embassy one, but hey, the reality. Always gonna be good people out there.

It doesn't mean you suck. Yeah. Right. Yeah. It really does it. And that's what people need to understand, like when it comes to imposter syndrome. Yeah. You know, just because somebody else knows their shit or two or three or 10 of the people, it doesn't mean you don't. Exactly. The last quote on this that we're gonna be talking today, and this one is my [00:43:00] favorite.

Mm-hmm. Three words. Three fucking words. Okay. Ready? Don't. Feel. Ooh. Again, our whole industry is built on empathy. Yes. It's all built on getting that initial reaction out of somebody on jumping in. Yep. Even UX is all about getting the right flow and mm-hmm. And feel, and, and capturing that, that, you know, I screw the UX on in conversation.

I'm, I'm not gonna defend those guys. Right? No, no. 

Shawn: Have I gone into the opposite world here? He's talking about you 

Massimo: got pissing me off lately. I hope AI comes after you. No, 

Shawn: it's okay. Not, no, UXers are listening 

Massimo: anyway, so, but no, no, the the, don't think feel though. But it is so important and I mean, we tell our customers this.

Don't overanalyze. Focus in on how you feel, on how something makes you feel. Right. Is the messaging correct? Is the look, you know, are, are you looking at it? Is it, is it giving you that right message? Don't overthink it. Yeah. Don't fucking think. Yeah. Feel, [00:44:00] feel right? Yeah. And that is so important because it's so fucking easy to over.

Every single thing that we do. Yep. Everything we design, everything we create, and then customers will do it. Yep. So again, we need to stop doing it and we need to tell our customers to stop doing it. We need to tell 'em to don't think, feel Yes. Focus on that first. Then we'll talk about the rest of the bullshit that you want to 

Shawn: talk about.

Yes, exactly. See, when you, when you presented these quotes to me, that's what made me think it was, this was. Oh really? Don't think 

Massimo: feel fair. But that would be more like think not, don't feel. Right. True. 

Shawn: Yes. Right, right, right. Uh, these are awesome, man. 

Massimo: I thought this is fun. You know what I mean? Again, Design like water?

Yes. Graphic design lessons from Bruce Lee. I hope, I hope everybody liked this. Uh, this is totally fun. Yes. You know, we just came off of an awesome one with, you know, a couple, you know, great guy. [00:45:00] He was the 

Shawn: Bruce Lee of, of design. 

Massimo: Holy shit. Right. Leaders. Yeah, exactly. So, you know, that's why this is, is it's just a nice way to kind of get back out mm-hmm.

Into this right. So, you know, let us know what you think. Uh, of course, I'm sure. Correct me, kick my ass. You know, I will your responses and come back with 

Shawn: something a little better. Dear, dear Bruce,

Massimo: I love that.

Shawn: That's so good. 

Massimo: He's so cool. And it's just like, and you know what? Fuck that dude had left an impression on that space and the whole world. 

Shawn: This is the thing. If it wasn't for Bruce Lee, there'd be no Jackie Chan. There'd be nothing like that. Right. Because he made me, this is the kind thing. Exactly. If there were no, if there, and again, again, to apply to our business, if there was no Paul Rand, there'd be no Allen Peters.

Mm-hmm. Do you know what I mean? Like this is the kind of stuff where you know, you're right, you're right, you're right. This is what the legacy of these people and how they 

Massimo: affect and what they [00:46:00] bring to it. All right? Yeah. How they affect. All parts. Yes. Not just, I bet you he didn't realize, he didn't think that fucking 50 years after his death, there'd be two fucking guys drinking whiskey, talking about graphic design and Bruce Lee's martial arts philosophies.

Right. I know, but how far the reach goes. Yes. And what. People create, right? Yeah. And he was very philosophical and he was, his stuff is brilliant. Mm-hmm. So I highly encourage, it was such a great rabbit hole to go down and refresh my mind about, you know, reminding me. Okay. And this weekend, you know, I'm gonna show Rocco, enter the dragon.

Right. We're gonna watch it. Oh yeah. And we're gonna go right back into this. I mean, I need to, I need to relive my brucey days. Ah, 

Shawn: that's awesome. He was such a badass. He was a pretty badass. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Cool. That's great. This is really good, man. Wow. That's fun. It's so, this is the kind of stuff I'm, I'm gonna start wearing all black der Okay.

I'm gonna sit quietly like a cat. Ready to pounce. 

Massimo: Yeah. Did you [00:47:00] wear a Cato hat? Yes. Glasses. 

Shawn: Exactly. Yeah. I'll jump out at you and eat, you know, for two time. 

Massimo: Except you'll sound more like a bear, not like a little, like 

Shawn: a zombie or something. Yeah. 

Massimo: All right. By all means, please leave us messages. Hit us up, leave us review, share us with everybody you know, again, if we don't have.

You know, the, the, the swag out on our site By this episode, we will shortly, uh, some of you reached out and again, it's just very first ground stuff and, you know, we'll get them out, get some feedback, and then we'll start, you know, doing bigger runs. Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah. We hope everybody likes it. I mean, once a bigger plans for us, but right now I'm having a great time.

Yeah. Hearing people and how we actually help their lives. Yes. So that's, that's what makes us all worthwhile. Yes. Yeah, exactly. So fucking worthwhile. Oh, totally. All right. With that 

Shawn: being said, I love. Kinda a fun shirt, right? How did I miss that? How did I fucking miss this? 

Massimo: Well, well, I was dropping him kids today.

What's our topic? Topic about today? What's our topic today? Sean? Jesus. [00:48:00] Okay. 

Shawn: You're good, you're good. My name's Mossimo. Yeah, my name's Sean. Stay creative and stay 

Massimo: angry.