Pricing a logo can be a NIGHTMARE. How can some Graphic Designers claim to charge $100,000 for a logo, and others struggle for $1000!

With so many pricing misconceptions out there, it’s no surprise so many Graphic Designers are getting it wrong, leaving thousands on the table. 

Strap in for a no holds barred Angry Designer 101 as the dapper gents lift the lid on REAL logo pricing. In this episode, Massimo and Shawn uncover the struggles of pricing a logo and discuss topics like:

– why Graphic Designers struggle to price logos
– what 6-figure logo Designers aren’t telling you
– zfactor’s 3 part logo pricing
– 3 actual projects price breakdown

Massimo: I went online today and I saw this post that said updated logo pricing for 2023. And I'm like, oh fuck. Let me let, let me see this. No, that's not be great. This's gotta be great. Right? And just so everybody's aware, updated logo pricing, yeah. For 2023 is on the low end. $300 on the high end, $1,500. And if you're an agency that could go up to $2,000, just 

Shawn: who wrote 

Massimo: this?

Massimo: Like 

Shawn: somebody who's not getting money he's worth, right. 

Massimo: Like Yeah. And that's exactly it. Nobody's really done a good job in trying to help designers figure out how the hell to charge yes for a logo because there's no two logos are alike. No two companies are alike. No two designers are alike. This is true, right?

Massimo: Yes. And again, and I personally feel that designers are leaving so much on the fucking table. 

Shawn: Clearly. Clearly. Right. That's, if that's the,[00:01:00]

Massimo: you're listening to the angry designer where we cut through the industry bold to help frustrated graphic designers survive and thrive. Right. Tonight we are. Oh wow. That smells great. Isn't that awesome? Wow. I just got really excited there how you just we're trying something new here called Brothers Bond and apparently it's award-winning.

Massimo: I just have never seen it before. It's the first time we got it of here. Yeah. And it's, um, distilled and crafted in the tradition of all great bourbon. This is one of your brother's bond. This is one of your up North finds. This is the one of the finds that I went up north and all of a sudden it's like in the middle of nowhere there was like, Wow.

Massimo: All these new bourbon finds. Well, 

Shawn: let's hope it's 

Massimo: good. Mm, smells good. Wow. Whoa. Wow. It's so wow. It's like so smooth. Mm. There's just a little bit of like aftertaste. It just kind of rolls on your tongue. That's really nice, dude. [00:02:00] And this thing was, won all these awards. Look at this. A gold winner. A 96 for the cigar and spirits.

Massimo: Wow. Tasting panel. Best Bourbon Rolling Stone Magazine. Oh, well, I'm liking this brother's bond. Even with John. You're my brother. We're bonding 

Shawn: over this. We're bonded. Bad boy. That's right. We're bonded. Check this bottle out guys. 

Massimo: Like that's pretty cool, right? Sexy. You see some corn growing in the middle there a.

Massimo: Anyway. Wow. Very impressed with 

Shawn: this one. Yeah, I like that. Mm-hmm. Nice. Let's hope it makes its way down south here. To Southern Ontario. To to southern Ontario. Right. So central, south, central, yo to 

Massimo: Central Ontario. Sounds so badass. It's, uh, dude, you know, why's badass? You know, why's that? Have you seen our lakes and the conditions of that lakes?

Massimo: Okay. Not at all. South Central Lakes, man. You guys. You guys on the east coast and the west coast. Yeah. You got nice clean oceans. You should come see what Lake Ontario looks like. That's right. Central. And you see how tall 

Shawn: we're [00:03:00] just don't wear your blue or red. Yeah. 

Massimo: Oh shit. All right, so speaking about Canadian, Yes.

Massimo: And it looks like there is a Canadian logger that has gotten a new logo. Oh, good old news. Check this headache. Good old. You wanna talk about Canadian logger? Look at this a before and after You guys are on YouTube, you'll be able to see this. But I mean, you know, thanks to, um, under consideration for, for actually putting this up on their website.

Massimo: I mean, this one's a tough one because Moosehead has been around. Forever. Yeah. Right. And this has been traditional moosehead. Yes. I'm like, you know, it's got that old look and feel to it. This just doesn't feel, I mean, the logo itself doesn't feel like. Logger anymore. It doesn't feel like beer. It's cool.

Massimo: Hmm. You know, they did that. Like, you know, they minimize the color, minimize the artwork. The artwork's beautiful, but it seems like something's missing. And then when I scroll down and look at some of these other beautiful, um, images that they put on this site, [00:04:00] I mean, that's pretty classic looking as our old moose head, right?

Massimo: Mm-hmm. And then we kind of see how it looks on the new and I, I, you know, I don't know, maybe it just takes time to get used to, it doesn't feel like. Moose head. Yeah. Right. It's, it's beautiful. It's really nice. It doesn't feel like we're, we're, I don't see enough of the connection other than the fact that it's a moose head.

Massimo: Yes, yes. I mean, okay. Hey, good for you for getting that part of the whole puzzle. Right. But I don't know, I mean, again, I'm not, I'm not in love with this ex, I mean, it's beautiful, the execution, but again, it just, you know. But the rollout is great. And again, the rollout is cool, and I mean, I, I guess that's what we're here to kind of talk about is, I mean, again, they've redone their logo, I guess, if you want to call it.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. And, um, I went online today and I saw this post that said updated logo pricing for 2023. And I'm like, oh fuck. Let me let, let me see this. No, it's ought be, it's gotta be great. Right. And just so everybody's aware, updated logo pricing Yeah. For 2023 is on the low end. $300 on the [00:05:00] high end, $1,500. And if you're an agency that could go up to $2,000.

Shawn: I was just, who wrote this? 

Massimo: Like 

Shawn: somebody who's not getting money's worth. Yeah. 

Massimo: Right. Like yeah. And that's exactly it. That I think that article, and that wasn't the only one. Like that there was a view that were, that. Fucking ridiculous. Wow. It was, it was ridiculous. 'cause I mean, but I think that kind of sums up what we are here to talk about today, because again, there are so many misconceptions in the industry and with designers on logo, logo prices, the shit that we read, the shit that people say.

Massimo: I mean, it kind of pisses me off. Mm-hmm. Right. And the reason why it pissing me off is I think nobody's really done a good job when trying to help designers figure out how the hell to charge Yes. For a logo. Because yeah, there's no two logos are alike. Yeah. No two companies are alike. No two designers are alike.

Massimo: This is true. Right? Yes. And again, [00:06:00] and I personally feel that designers are leaving. So much on the fucking table. 

Shawn: Clearly, clearly, right? If that's, if that's the pricing scale, imagine some poor young guy going, oh my God, I gotta charge this guy 300 bucks for, yeah. Oh, I sweat bullets, sweat. 

Massimo: I'm sorry if you guys are going 

Shawn: through that, but, wow.

Shawn: Yes. Sorry. Yeah. So, yes, 

Massimo: so, okay. So we're gonna talk about, um, why they struggle. You know, we're, we're here to talk about things to consider when pricing, how we break things down in pricing. And it has worked for us, right? Because again, it's often, you know, there was a point where even we were guessing at one point until we kind of figured out a system.

Massimo: Yes. And then I actually, and I, I feel weird doing this, but I actually got three different examples. How we priced out customers dollar for dollar. So you can see exactly what we charged three very different 

Shawn: customers, but I was looking at that too, and without giving it anything away. Yeah, they're very different scenarios.

Shawn: Right, exactly. Which is exactly what you're talking [00:07:00] about. This is, this is a, this is not a, uh, like some people online has saying. Are saying you charge this much for a logo and that's it. I know, but no know there's too many variables involved with this kind of stuff, depending on the company. 

Massimo: Exactly, exactly.

Massimo: Too many variables. Yes, and I think that's why designers struggle with this. Mm-hmm. Because nobody ever is clear. Everybody gives them big pet. Talks. Yeah. And how much they charge and what they do. Mm-hmm. But you know, like, and how do we charge appropriately? But nobody actually breaks it down in an easy to understand manner at least.

Massimo: So it's like, you know, and I'm not gonna be like, okay, for the first five hours, charge this in the second. But I mean, we have, we have a formula that works for us. Yeah. And then, you know, and why it works and that's what we'll talk about, right? Yeah. Yes. But I mean, in general, I, I think it's safe to assume that designers struggle.

Massimo: With pricing logos because a lack of fucking information out there. Yeah, yeah. You know, of accurate information on how to break this shit down. Mm-hmm. Which kind of, you know, is a little frustrating. Yeah. Possibly. Lack of confidence. Yeah. Totally. Totally. And this isn't, isn't because you guys suck by any means.

Massimo: Right. It's when you'd love [00:08:00] doing something. How the hell do you charge 

Shawn: for it? You and I both have had stories of $20 logos. Right. And I loved it. I know. And it doesn't matter you did it 'cause you fucking loved it. But Yeah. You know, like, what the hell was I 

Massimo: thinking back in the day? And even, you know, even when we talked to Alan Peters, right?

Massimo: Like he, you know, for his price, he does like, 50 logo concepts because he loves what he does. Yeah. And he, he's proud to show it All. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, you know, obviously, you know, as a designer it's hard to put a price and a value to something you love doing. Yes. Right? Yes. Yes. So there's, there's a little confidence factor there, right?

Massimo: Yep. Yep. Difficulty communicating value to customers, okay? Mm-hmm. And this part I hate online. 'cause everybody keeps going on about, well you need to sell them. The value that the logo is gonna bring to them. And I mean, that is such it. It might be true. Mm-hmm. But that's a hard thing to try to convince somebody, you know?

Massimo: Yeah. Listen, Mr. Restaurateur, you know, you need to charge me 10,000, or I need to charge you $10,000 for this logo. You need to approve it because it's gonna make a world of [00:09:00] difference. Yeah. Your food's gonna fucking taste better. Customers are gonna come in now because only the logo, not you, your reputation, your food.

Shawn: No, it's secondary. Secondary. 

Massimo: Like it's hard. Not everybody values a logo separate. That's right. It's the same, right? That's right. So, I mean, trying to, to sit there and, you know, communicate the value of it. Again, it's different for. Everybody. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Obviously you we're, we're constantly seeing this competitive pricing, like a race to fucking zero.

Massimo: Yes. Apparently. Yeah. If the going rate is 300 to 1500, apparently, then 2024 is gonna be like 25 bucks. Like, you'll be paying the company to do 

Shawn: your logo. 

Massimo: It's, again, it's, it's, you know, you're seeing all these, these prices out there. Mm-hmm. And again, there's so many variables. Right. People are putting a price on the wrong parts Yeah.

Massimo: Of the whole process. So again, you're not really sure how to understand this competitive pricing and what people are seeing online or on YouTube or this or that. Right. Right. [00:10:00] So the pricing sucks. There's always a challenge trying to educate the customer with value, which we talked 

Shawn: about. Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Shawn: That's always difficult. And I mean, that kind of is, that goes like with, um, our buddy Alan Peters. Mm-hmm. I mean, that guy throws 50 fucking logos at you. Wow, that's value. Right? Absolutely. You know what I mean? Or if you're gonna just go there. Like some kids that we've read, they just present one 

Massimo: logo.

Massimo: Yeah, exactly. And that's, and that's a thing right now too. And what's the perceived 

Shawn: value from the client on 

Massimo: that? Right. You know what I mean? Absolutely. We've got, we've got some people on Instagram that I follow and that's what they're trying and you know, it's, for some people it works, other people it doesn't could, and again, so good on them if it works.

Massimo: Yeah. And it works for them. Everybody has some sort of different system. Yeah. Right. But again, there's challenges of I, I guess there's just a challenge of educating people how to do that. Right. Right. Yeah. So I think that's something why struggles, why the designers struggle so much. Mm-hmm. And then of course, a lack of understanding on how to properly.

Massimo: Price a logo. Yes. Okay. And I think that is probably the biggest, what's the [00:11:00] word? I mean, I think that's, that's the part that's missing hurdle in almost all of this. Well, kind of, you know, it is, it's like a wall, a brick wall. Because again, when you hear people online get all these huge fucking fees, right?

Massimo: Oh my God. You're like, well, how am I gonna do that? Right? Yeah. Yeah. And so that's what I mean. I want to go do there I Exactly right. Like when you hear, you know, when you hear like bp mm-hmm. Paid. 211 million fucking dollars for a new logo. You're like, holy shit, I'm only charging $300. How the hell am I gonna get to the next plateau?

Massimo: Just by? And, and again, it's, it's just, you know, it's that when people are putting these huge figures and they're not saying how they're getting there, why they're getting there. Right. Stress is the fuck outta people. This is true. Right. And then we went through this for years, and I know other designers that go through it for years, I break it down for 'em.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. And it helps them across the board, right? Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, again, When you hear BP two 11 or Accenture logo, a hundred million dollars for an Accenture logo. Right. The b b C logo. Yes. $1.8 million for a font change. [00:12:00] And um, you know, and Pepsi's old logo, that really shitty one, $1 million, right?

Massimo: Yeah. Like this, this shit stresses people out. Mm-hmm. Or even worse, and this is the part that I don't like when certain, you know, YouTube celebrities, you know, or they're posting videos and they're like, I charge between 25 and $50,000 for a logo. Mm-hmm. And it's just like, dude, shake your head. No, you're not.

Massimo: Okay. If, if you can yes. Be like, here you go, customer, here's one logo. Yeah. 50 grand. And they pay for it. Good. Yeah. Good. Good, good, good. But I mean, I mean, again, people are losing sleep over this. This is true. Because they're not, they're not getting that money for a single logo. Yes. And that's the misconception.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. That I think is, is really stressing out designers. Right. It's this idea that people are paying for a single. And products. Yeah. And nothing else. Yes. And again, I think that's the bullshit in all of this. 

Shawn: I think you're absolutely right because when we were doing research for that website design, that redesign we were doing, you, you [00:13:00] gave BP as one of the examples.

Shawn: Yep. I'll bet That kind of was rolled into. The des the logo rollout. Shit, dude. Do you know what I mean? Like absolutely. It's just not $201 

Massimo: million or whatever. Well, it's not 11 million. I can reassure you that that is just, that's okay. That $200 million. Yeah, that a hundred thousand dollars even for those fucking designers who say they're 25, $50,000, that's for a rebrand project.

Massimo: Yeah. It's something. Much bigger. Bigger than a single logo. Right. Like even someone like, you know, um, Alan Peters, who does logo marks. Yeah. He doesn't just hand over a single No. Logo. No, that's, and be like, here you go off. Right. You see what he does. He does everything. How it plays out, where it plays out, how it looks on has, how it actually, like he builds an entire fucking system.

Massimo: Yes. Let alone anything else that he's not posting. Mm-hmm. On Instagram on there. Yes. So I think people need to, you know, like. You know, fucking pump the brakes a bit. Yes. On this whole bullshit about, you know, logo design look, because again, nobody's getting that kind of dollar [00:14:00] unless somebody absolutely wants to work with a superstar and they'll pay whatever they want just to brag about, you know, using that one logo.

Massimo: But you know, even the whole Steve Jobs and Paul Rand situation, oh man. Yeah. He handed over not just a single logo, but a whole fucking system on how to use it, where to use it, yeah. When it's placed in this. So that's a much. Bigger system than a single logo. Yes. Right. Absolutely. So I figured, you know, we'll break this down a little bit.

Massimo: Right. Okay. And okay. With all things considered, no matter if you do charge a single price for one logo, final product mm-hmm. Or you, you know, you have a system or a process in place, you know, there's always gonna be different factors that a designer needs to consider. Right. When pricing a logo, and this can be the same product, but different factors, you know, across the board.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. Okay. And this will always change, obviously, you know, uh, an obvious. Factor you have to take into consider. It is just, is time and, and, and energy. Yes. Okay. How much effort is it gonna take? Mm-hmm. But that's, that goes, that goes without saying. Right, right, right. And you have to make sure that you're gonna at [00:15:00] least charge enough Yeah.

Massimo: To, you know, cover your overhead, your time and all that. That just goes without saying. Okay. Yeah, yeah. But a huge factor, of course, is the client. Okay. And the type of client, right? Are they a new customer? Right? Are they a new, new business? Are they an established business, right? Yeah. Yeah. Are they a small company, a large company, a small little retail shop, a large, you know, B two B distributor or something, right?

Massimo: Yep. The client plays a huge factor that always you always have to take into consideration. Yes. Okay. Yep. Because that's a huge part of this whole, and you know, the funny thing is some customers just want a small. Price for something, right? Yes. Some customers expect to pay something large just because they have marketing people that appreciate this.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. And understand what goes behind this whole other side of the world. Right? That's right. This whole other, you know, the rebrand part, right? Yeah. Yeah. So huge factor. Mm-hmm. The industry. Makes a big difference, right? So again, if it's in the medical industry, right? Mm-hmm. They're used to paying bigger box because there's a lot more that goes involved when it comes to, you know, logo projects, brand projects, [00:16:00] rebrand projects.

Massimo: Right? Right. Where again, if it's like a small little, you know, mon pa shop, florist. A florist, right? They're not looking for, they're not. Yeah. That's an odd choice. Why did you see Floris? 

Shawn: First thing, first thing that came to my head. 

Massimo: Well, that's very pretty, Sean. I'm, I'm feeling all hippie today, I guess, 

Shawn: but it's true 

Massimo: though.

Massimo: You're absolutely right. You're, and the funny thing is, okay if it's a local florist Yeah, but what if it's a, you know, a flower distribution company? Okay. There you, the bigger, you know, chain wide flower distribution network, right? Yeah. So again, um, the industry that they're in, Right. And so it's the customer and the industry and really plays a huge factor.

Massimo: Yeah. In, you know, the price of what you're gonna charge for a logo, right? Yeah. Yeah. And we'll say logo for now, just for argument's sake, just Yeah. To keep it simple. Yeah. Geography. Geography. Okay. Mm-hmm. Because, okay. An area like where we are right now here, right? Kitchen loo, hot tech town, right? Mm-hmm.

Massimo: They'll be used to pinging. A certain price. Yeah. A little more. Go to Silicon Valley. Okay. That rate quadruples. Yeah. And you have to recognize that. [00:17:00] Yeah. Even if you are a silicon, you know you are in kitchen Waterloo mm-hmm. Serving a a Silicon Valley customer. Mm-hmm. They're gonna have different kind of pricing expectations.

Massimo: That's right. Okay. Yeah. So again, where the geographic location of where the customers makes a huge difference. Yep. Of course, your experience. Plays a huge part in this, right? This is true. Is huge. If you're just one to three years, have a couple logos underneath your belt. Yeah. One or two big companies, or if you've been doing this for 20, 25 years and you've got a huge portfolio and you know a variety of different customers, that plays a huge factor.

Massimo: Big time in this big time. Yep. Your expertise. Mm-hmm. Okay. I keep going on about this, but are you an expert in a certain area? Mm-hmm. Right. Have you niched down if you niche? You can charge a premium for virtually everything you do, especially logo design. And on the flip side, because you are that expert, you don't need the ramp up time either.

Massimo: Right. So you're almost getting it on both ends. Yeah. Yeah. So, 

Shawn: well that's great. Big fan of 

Massimo: nicheing, of course. Yeah. And then of course, you know, this whole [00:18:00] idea of value and impact you bring to the business. Yeah. Okay. You know, is the logo itself gonna make a huge difference to a business? Well, the logo market itself.

Massimo: Maybe not a value-wise, but if you take that and you put it across signage, social, you know, um, internally, you know, you execute it, you throw it on packaging, all of a sudden the greater impact of that piece has more value to the business than just like, oh, we're just, it's just a sign in front of our shop.

Massimo: And that's as far as it's ever going 

Shawn: to go. Think of that, think of the Nike Swoosh. If that was just a sign on the on the door. Yep. What would that be? Right? Exactly. Right. But because the marketing cloud behind it Yep. Really kicks ass, then it becomes 

Massimo: something, right? Absolutely. Absolutely. And that's a huge part, right?

Massimo: So it's just how far is it gonna go? How far is that reach gonna be on that product? Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And then of course, last but not least, the part that nobody fucking tells you about. Mm-hmm. Okay. Is the scope. Of work there after. Oh, are you just handing out a flat [00:19:00] logo and that's it. One and done. Yeah.

Massimo: Done. Yeah. One and done. Here's your e p s file. Here's your p d. See jpeg, I'm done. If you are, shame 

Shawn: on you. Yeah. You're leaving a lot of the table 

Massimo: so much. Right? Um, to me that's the most important part of this whole process. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And this is the part that nobody ever fucking tells you, right?

Massimo: Mm-hmm. Because when they're giving you these, like BP. $211 million. That wasn't for a fucking logo. They redid every fucking gas station. Yes. That it, so imagine what that cost would be. This is the thing. Yes. It's a whole new brand. Exactly. Every pump, every sign. Yeah. You know, inside, outside, right. Pepsi, right?

Massimo: Yeah. All the cans that they had to overdo with the new logo, right? Yep. Um, the Accenture logo, right? What was that one? Systematic, I think was the one company that they also said they, they, it cost a billion dollars because in order to get the check mark Semantic, oh, semantic. The semantic, right with the check mark.

Massimo: The joke is it cost them over a billion dollars 'cause they had to buy the other company and use their check mark [00:20:00] on their own logo. But again, it's the rollout material in that case. It isn't just the fact that somebody sat down and designed a logo. Right. Yeah. So that's why, um, you know, that's a huge part on this whole process that nobody ever talks about.

Massimo: Yeah. Right. They're always like, oh, I charge 25 to $50,000 

Shawn: minimum for a logo. That's, that's exactly it. But they're not saying what the hell, the else, what 

Massimo: else has been done through it. Right. They're delivering. Yes. So a little misleading. Yeah, unfortunately, and I don't like that. And I do think the terminology needs to change a little bit.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. Right. Because again, people are saying they keep throwing the word logo, logo, logo. I charge this much for a logo, I charge, but let's face it, a logo is just a logo. Logo mark. Mm-hmm. Is part Yes. Of a bigger brand. Right, right. The brand identity system to make, you know, to get even more tight on this one.

Massimo: Right. Yeah. So there's a lot more elements on this that you have to take into consideration, not just the market itself. That's right. Yeah. And that's the part I'm really, it pisses me off when I see that. 'cause that's all you see online. Yeah. How much to charge for logo. Yeah. But nobody tells you. Nobody says what else to what else.

Massimo: Yeah. Yeah. What else? What 

Shawn: [00:21:00] else is involved involved with that? Which is kind of shameful, especially if, I think it's the guy that you're talking about. 'cause he's kind of pretty militant about stuff like that and charges is a lot of money. Yep, yep, yep. And and you're like, and he's pretty harsh on 

Massimo: people that he, right.

Massimo: He talks but you're not, he's not playing the full story, but he's not saying the whole. Thing. Yeah. And I think that's the shame, and that's what people need to understand. So don't get stressed out if you're charging 1500, two grand, three grand for a logo. Mm-hmm. And you're like, wow, why are these people charging 15, 20?

Massimo: And they're telling me I have to raise my fucking rates. Yeah. 'cause again, there's a way around this. Okay. So. What's worked for us. Okay. And how we have always priced out. Mm-hmm. Okay. So Z Factor, it's not the only way to do it. Nope. But this is what we've done and it helps us every single time on pricing up projects.

Massimo: Yes. Okay. Yep. And I only give you exact e e exact examples. Okay. Ooh, three very different examples at the end of this. Stick around for that. Yes. But we have three parts to pricing. A logo, not one. Okay. So three parts. I wrote this all down. [00:22:00] Okay. So people tend to, they, they just have a habit of looking at.

Massimo: Part two of this whole process. Mm-hmm. They have a, they have a habit of just looking at the final logo and being like, you charged how much for that? Like that only took how many hours to do. And this is even customers sometimes. Yeah. When they had that, that backlash. Right. It's always on that one part.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. But there's two other really important parts that go before and after. Mm-hmm. So our approach here Okay. Is three parts. Part one. Yep. R and d. Part two, the pitch. Hmm. And part three. The rollout. Right. Okay. Now you'd think, well, duh. Yeah. You know, of course what, that's what's always involved. Right.

Massimo: But not really, and not everybody does this the same way. Okay? Mm-hmm. So, of course, the r d the research and development part, right? Yeah. Is everything you do. Up until the logo. Okay. Sometimes that's nothing more than just doing a quick internet search. Mm-hmm. You know, maybe get some inspiration, something light and easy, but depending on the customer, the product Right.

Massimo: It could be much bigger. Mm-hmm. There could be a lot more in-depth information. Right. And [00:23:00] depending on how big and, and you know, um, full your agency is. Mm-hmm. That could include fucking focus groups and a lot of other really unnecessary Yeah. You know, bloated type of stuff to this. Right, right. Then of course, number two is the pitch.

Massimo: This is when you design, physically design the logo, you know, the hands on the hours, whether it's one person agency pulled together, have something final to pitch to the customer. Right. You do your revisions, you know, and you, and you hand that over. That's often the cheapest part if you think about hours wise.

Massimo: Yeah. That's often the smallest amount of work, right? They are after, which people don't realize. Yeah, exactly. Right? Yeah, this is true. And then you've got the rollout or what you do. After the logo. So this is anything you do, you collected, you pitch, you build out there after. Okay? Right. So this isn't the case for all customers, of course, and this isn't the case for all projects.

Massimo: But being aware of all three of these parts will help you. Comfortably quote a logo project. Right? Because you know what you're in [00:24:00] for. Mm-hmm. Okay. 'cause then you can compare it. So again, it's, it's more valuable to understand this process and this is what, why for us it's worked. Mm-hmm. Right? Because you understand 1, 2, 3, and how all three of these things come up to the final price.

Massimo: Yep. But they don't necessar, they're not. Equally weighted across every single brand job, right. Logo mark, job. And they're not, you know, equally weighted for every single project. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So again, it just helps you get a better idea of if you are actually charging. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, number one, the lead up.

Massimo: Okay. Which is the research and discovery part, right? Right. So this is everything from, you know, in-depth research. You do your deeper competitive analysis, right? Mm-hmm. You can get your brand audit. This is when you go in and start reviewing what they have already, right? Ah, and again, dig deeper into the brand.

Massimo: Right? To me, this is the most valuable part in this whole process because the deeper you go, of course, right, and deeper you look at the company, their brand, the more potential flaws you. Find. Right. Okay. And the more you know problems you start to uncover. Exactly. Okay. So to me, [00:25:00] that's money. Okay. It is, right?

Massimo: Because again, somebody comes to you and is like, we need a new logo because sales are down. And obviously it sucks. And it's like, okay, well let's take a look 

Shawn: at this and see Yeah. Why, why is that? Why? Is it because your logo? Yeah. 

Massimo: Right. Well, and again, your logo is, is the cause of all this. Fuck, you know, I, it was only that easy.

Massimo: Right? Yeah. 

Shawn: Right. So 

Massimo: again, this is where, you know, you start digging deeper in finding out what their competitors are doing versus them, right? Is their messaging lacking? Is their website lacking? Are, you know, is does the logo look like it's 1970? Is it literally the reason or is it the fact that their product sucks?

Massimo: Yeah. Right. So this is the opportunity to dig deep into the product. Okay. And then you'll start discovering anything else that. Could be added to thereafter. Okay. Right. So now you have got all this valuable information from part one. Okay. Yeah. This is gonna help you part two. Now, if your logo project is a local flower shop mm-hmm.

Massimo: Chances are you're not gonna spend a ton of time here in part one. Yes. You might spend very little time, you might do an internet source. [00:26:00] Check out the other florist locally. Yep. Yep. Ask what they do different. That might be enough. Yep. Right. There you go. However, if you're dealing with a giant manufacturer or a global brand, or you know, a big tech company, yeah, yeah.

Massimo: You may want to dig a little deeper. Yes. So this is what I mean by the, they're not equally weighted. Yeah. Okay. They're I important for the, the whole process, but they're not equally weighted. Right. Okay. So, you know, in one customer, it might only take me a morning's worth of work to get all the research I need.

Massimo: Other customer, it might take me weeks and weeks. Right. Depending on how deep you go. Yeah. Then you got number two, which is the pitch, right? Yeah. And I'd say the pitch, but really this is what you do to prepare for the pitch. This is when you sit down and start coming up with all the concepts. When you actually start digging deep and you know, putting, you know your mouse to computer, pen to paper, however you do this and you start coming up with all the concepts.

Massimo: Right. And honestly, this generally is like, You know, the least amount of hours in a lot of cases, right? Mm-hmm. Because a lot of times the bigger the company, the more research and discovery you're gonna have to do. Mm-hmm. You know, smaller companies, [00:27:00] so again, you might spend hundreds of hours in one place where this might only take you 50 hours.

Massimo: Right. Might only take you 30 hours. Yeah. 20 hours, depending on how good you are in your process, right? Yeah. Yeah. So again, this is. Includes your design, your concepts, you know the presentation deck, right? This is everything goes together at this part. Right? Okay. And then once you do that pitch, once that's all done, you have part three, which is then the rollout material, right?

Massimo: So this is where the money is, and this is where people leave it on the table, right? Okay. You've got all this awesome information you've learned from the first phase. Mm-hmm. This is when you start pitching and reg making more recommendations thereafter, once you've got the logo. This is the rollout material thereafter.

Massimo: That's important that you have to bring up, you know, pitch, include add thereafter, right? Yeah. This is when it goes from a single logo to now a brand identity system. Right? Right. A design system. This is when you start re outfitting everything, not just the logo. Mm-hmm. Right? Because people often don't know how much further [00:28:00] this has to go to develop the brand.

Massimo: Exactly. Because the brand is the bigger picture. Mm-hmm. And that's why often when people are just coming in asking for a new logo, Right. Well, that's if you're just giving 'em a new logo, you're not thinking of the bigger picture. Yeah. Yeah. You're, you know, the brand, and again, this is, you know, part one gives you all this data that you need.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. Okay. To take to this phase and start rolling it out. And this is how projects go from a. $1,500 logo. Mm-hmm. To like $150,000 logo. Yeah. Because now your logo has uncovered all these other issues. You're building a bigger brand identity system. Mm-hmm. You're building website to go along with it.

Massimo: New social media campaign, new brand guideline. Yeah. And all of a sudden it's just exploded. Yeah. Just based on, you know, all that research. Yes. So again, when I'm, and this is really important, like Michael Beirut. Did this m i t labs re job. Right? And, and I love watching. Did you see that? His Google presentation.

Massimo: Okay. Like he did, you know, if you want something really interesting to watch, right? Go online, find, you know, Michael [00:29:00] Beirut's, M I T labs, you know, logo redo. Yeah. And he did this, he pitched to logo, right? And breaks it all down. And you know, the first thing is, you know, the very first go with this. They didn't like.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. They didn't like his first idea. I thought it was pretty cool. Didn't like it the second one though, right? Yeah. He came up with this monogram. Yeah. Okay. This, this ML monogram. Okay. Which is fine and on its own. Sure. It's kind of cool. Mm-hmm. I get it. Mm-hmm. Great. Done, right? Yeah. But what he did, so he did a monogram to serve, to serve them fine, to to, to show up, you know, to show this media labs, uh, m i t media labs, right?

Massimo: Yeah. But then what he did is he created this underlying grid for this monogram. Okay. And then he is like, look, you think this monograms cool? Let me show you what else it can do. He shows this grid and he all of a sudden comes up with all these other visuals. Dozens based on this grid? Yeah. For the other 23 departments.

Massimo: Yeah. At m mit. Yes. So all of a sudden his project went from this one single thing to this entire [00:30:00] design system. Right. The whole branding system. Mm-hmm. And it was all based on the research that they found. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So again, his, that project, you know, went from just like a small project that's huge brand overhaul, and then it went to like t-shirts and how it can be used here and there.

Massimo: So, you know that that wasn't because somebody came up to him and said, Hey, I'll give you 50 grand for a logo. It was probably like, I'll give you like, $2 million. Yes. To re-fit the entire Exactly. Thing. And that's what he, the whole McGill. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Yeah. So this is, this is why it's extremely important.

Massimo: So you take these three things into consideration. Mm-hmm. Okay. And you start applying it to different logo projects. Yeah. And this is how you start to realize, am I going rich on this project? Am I going to lean on this project? Mm-hmm. So we gave the example of Sean's florist, and again, Sean's florist.

Massimo: Might only need, you know, a morning's worth of hours. Right. Like for the research and, and, and development part. Yeah. Fine. You know what I mean? Chalk that up. We'll just say hypothetically speaking to like [00:31:00] 400 bucks. Yep. If you're a freelancer, right? 300 bucks for a freelancer, then you do the logo. Yep.

Massimo: Okay. Mm-hmm. Okay. You give 'em a logo, you hand it over your logo then is what? Um, we'll just say for shits and giggles, a thousand bucks if you're a freelancer. Sure. Yeah. Maybe 1500 bucks. Yeah. Okay. I think that's good. If you're foolish. You stop there. Mm-hmm. But the thing, the reality is they're gonna need more material thereafter.

Massimo: You can give 'em that logo, they'll take it, they'll go to the print shop and get them to design their business card. Yep. Then they'll go online, find somebody to put it to their social media crap. Right? Mm-hmm. This is money that you. Loss. This is your opportunity to upsell on the third stage of this, right?

Massimo: Yes. Because again, if you're just going in and redoing that logo number two, and they're like, Nope, I just want you to take this flower, this font, put it together, fine. Then you can just charge that, that thousand in the middle. You go, yeah. And you walk away from it. Shit. At that point 500, if they're gonna tell you what they want, this is true.

Massimo: Yep. Actually, if they're gonna tell you what they want, you should charge two grand. 

Shawn: Should be 

Massimo: more. But, but what I'm saying is if you don't need much. [00:32:00] Price number one. Yeah. And there isn't gonna be much follow up material then you know that That middle part, that price there, you know, you're not gonna be so bad.

Massimo: Would you be happy with 1500 bucks for doing a day's worth of work? Slapping some logo ideas together, right? Some logo mark ideas. Yeah. That wouldn't be so bad. However, if you have the opportunity to take that to another level, Right. To grow something bigger. Well, you know, do their signage, do their, their business cards come up with a thank you card.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. You know, come up with the wrap that goes around all the flowers they send out. Do their bags, do this, do that. All a sudden they're fans. I mean, see, think big. Yeah. Think big. All a sudden that one logo project can turn into a whole identity system that for a freelancer Yeah. Could end up growing now too.

Massimo: $5,000, 6,000, even 10,000, right? So now when you're sitting here telling people, oh, I got paid $10,000 to do Sean's flower, you know, flower logo for his, his shop. Well, 

Shawn: wait a minute. How did I get the shop? 

Massimo: I'm never, I'm never, I'm never letting you live that one down, buddy. [00:33:00]

Shawn: Fuck. So what? I wanna be a florist, florist.

Massimo: It's very pretty. Um, but I mean, you know, you've just all of a sudden grown the job and you can say, I just charged that flower company 10 grand for a logo. Yeah. That's not necessarily true. Yes. But neither is the shit that they're telling you online is true. But now you understand how they come to those prices.

Massimo: Exactly. Okay. So that I think is the key to this whole thing. Number one, understanding. What the hell people actually mean. Mm-hmm. Okay. Even at the very least, if they're saying, Nope, it was just 20 grand for a logo. Bullshit. Yeah. Because you're not handing over just an e p s file for 20 grand and walking away if you're doing that.

Massimo: Holy shit. Good on you. And hey, if you are props to you. Yeah. But I mean, again, you know, you've got a whole bunch of, you know, they're handing over brand guide with that. Yes. A usage guide for that. Mm-hmm. So even if they're premium price because they're celebrity and they're not doing anything else mm-hmm.

Massimo: Other than the logo itself. There's still more deliverables to that. 

Shawn: That's right. Yeah. Absolutely. And you know, back to that too, as an upsell. I mean, I think most [00:34:00] people would be interested in hearing that. 'cause at the very least, a, they're gonna be aware that, oh my God, I have a whole lot of shit to do with this new logo.

Shawn: Yep. I don't wanna do this. I don't have any time to do this. Yep. Can you do this? Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like it's almost a 

Massimo: no brainer for you to Absolutely. And that's the key, right? You need to pitch this Exactly. So 

Shawn: instead of just saying, well, I don't know, good luck. Yeah. Right here to go. Thank you.

Shawn: Where's my $500 for my final 

Massimo: logo? You asked for a logo. I gave you a logo. Exactly. See you later. I'm done. 

Shawn: That's what, 

Massimo: that's all it is. Huge mistake. Like holy cow. And you need so much money on the table for this. Yeah. Yeah. So we got three projects here. Mm-hmm. Okay. Three projects and, and how we approach this shit.

Massimo: Okay. Yeah. And they're all three very different companies. So number one, okay. Startup, there's a tech startup. Mm-hmm. Local tech startup. They called up and said, Hey. Got a new company, we need a new logo. Right. Okay. Okay. So I could have stopped there and was like, sure, tell me about your company. Let me create your logo.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. Right. Uh, so we did a little bit of research. You know, we spent that morning or that afternoon, but the [00:35:00] reality is because we know this space so much, we didn't have to spend nearly, nearly as much time didn't have to Yeah. As one would think. Right. Alright. And then instead of just saying, yeah, we'll do this, right, we looked at who they were.

Massimo: We looked at, you know, what their industry was like when we realized, you know, what their short-term goals were. Mm-hmm. And yeah, they were strapped for cash. They were like, look, you know what, you know, we only have so much money. Yeah. And we've, you know, we've gotta do this for at least a year to start getting business in.

Massimo: Right. And then we'll come back and we'll spend more money. But the reality is, giving them a logo is just, is basically setting them up for failure. Mm-hmm. Okay. Because they needed more than the damn logo. Right. They needed to show that they weren't. Just a startup and that they didn't have to worry about just making it for the next 12 months.

Massimo: 'cause they were already established. They're already going. Right. Yeah. We needed to give them enough material mm-hmm. That they could look like an established company. Right. And so that's what we sold 'em. We're like, look, if I just give you a logo, that's fine, but then you're gonna take that logo, it's not gonna work.

Massimo: You're gonna make it look like shit. 'cause you're not, you're not gonna lay it out properly. Mm-hmm. You're not gonna size it up. You're gonna do a really bad job in social [00:36:00] media. Right? Yep. Yep. And, You're gonna quickly take this really cool logo and make yourselves look sized, make yourselves look small and right.

Massimo: Yeah, that's right. There goes your brand. Yep. So, you know what we did is we pitched them a group of items. Mm-hmm. Okay. So we said like we broke down the project into more than just a logo. Okay. We still gave them the option. Mm-hmm. Okay. We broke it down to a price for a logo. Yep. Okay. A price for a brand guideline.

Massimo: Oh, okay. And then a corporate identity package, like a tier package. Okay. Well, no, no, no. Again, corporate id and corporate id. What I mean by that is like a email signature. Oh, okay. You know, banner. Oh, gotcha. Um, a LinkedIn header. Right. Okay. The right messaging. We, we came up with their PowerPoint presentation.

Massimo: Right. We designed. All their corporate identity materials, anything that their customers are gonna see while they're pitching them, it's gonna look, it's gonna look like this, it's gonna look the same, it's gonna look professional. The message is the same, right? Mm-hmm. So we gave them, and then we gave 'em a social toolkit.

Massimo: Oh, nice. So we didn't actually design all [00:37:00] their social media. Mm-hmm. Okay. We designed one campaign for them, and then we went in and we created them an editable. Oh, slicks. Yeah. In. PowerPoint. I know that's horrible, but at least they could get in and they could create their own social posts thereafter.

Massimo: Yes. Okay. In PowerPoint. And then export them. And then upload them as they were. Right. Wow. So we created 'em a social toolkit. Okay. Yeah. We gave them tiered pricing. We said, look, okay. If you want just the logo, it's five K. You want the brand guideline thereafter, so everybody knows how to use your logo in your company and they don't bastardize it.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. That's three K. Yeah. Okay. Corporate ID package, which is now your logo and all these other scenarios that you need. Five K. Mm-hmm. And then your social toolkit was another three K. Mm. Okay. So in total, okay. If they would buy everything and, and pay for it all together, it was like 15 K. Right. Okay. So we cut them a little bit of break.

Massimo: If they bought everything at once. Right. Which they did. Yeah. Right. And again, so that was the breakdown. And in all fairness, if you break down the hours, I [00:38:00] think if, I mean, I don't even, I, I don't want to, you know, say what, what it broke down to hourly. Yeah. 'cause that's not necessarily what we were charging for.

Massimo: Yes. But dude, like it was definitely, it was okay. Yeah. Yeah, it was, it was pretty good in that sense. Right. Not that you gauge it that way, but you know it, it was a profitable job. Yes. 'cause we knew what we were doing. We knew what they needed. Yep. And that's the pricing, the actual pricing that we gave them for this, it was perfect for them because now they had more than, although it was more than they initially wanted to spend, they now had everything that they needed.

Massimo: So they didn't have to think about marketing. Right. It was. Automatic form. They just rolled it out. Yep. Okay. So that was that job. Nice job number two. Yeah. Okay. This was a large established B two B manufacturer. Okay. So they're, you know, a giant company, okay. Mm-hmm. Very big company. They think they were like a half a billion dollar company and everything They do and they're global.

Massimo: Okay. And they were, they started a whole new project. It's a whole new division that they were gonna, you know, [00:39:00] not only launch at, at the facility here. But then at their US facility and then their European facility. Okay. Three. And it was initiative. Right. And they needed a logo that was gonna be implemented across.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. Okay. Spearheaded And all they had for us was the name. Yes. Okay. So we dug a little deeper. So bigger customer. Mm-hmm. Used to spending better box. Mm-hmm. Okay. But. You need a little bit more research behind this one. Okay. Yeah. This is not just an afternoon, this isn't an after. And we knew that going into this, this wasn't a guess.

Massimo: We were like, look, you know, this isn't a, you know, a simple two week gig, right? We needed to do a little bit more research. We needed to position them better, right? And so we knew going into this, pricing it out that they would definitely need more upfront. Okay? They're gonna need, you know, obviously the logo is.

Massimo: The logo part itself was the same. Mm-hmm. Right. And then they're gonna need some more rollout material thereafter. Right. Okay. So we dug deeper. Okay. We did the research, we did the discovery part. Mm-hmm. Okay. We actually changed their name versus the shit that they gave us because it was really bad with they gave [00:40:00] Wow.

Massimo: Really? Yeah. And they were good with it, right? The research. 'cause the research showed this, right? Yes. So, again, Upped our sal a little bit more on this project, right? Mm-hmm. They needed a logo. They absolutely needed brand guidelines. Mm-hmm. Because it was going across the world in different locations.

Massimo: Right. Okay. Obviously they needed corporate ID package 'cause they needed PowerPoints and all the emails had to have the same look and feel. It had to be consistent. Right. And a social toolkit, which really just comprised of everything they needed for LinkedIn. Yeah. Okay. Pricing for this customer. Little different.

Massimo: The naming process, 10 K. The logo mark itself. 10 K. Even though the process itself was exactly the same as it was before, right? Mm-hmm. It was just the information, the studying beforehand. We did, yes. The brand guideline. 12 K. Mm-hmm. The corporate ID rollout eight K. Mm-hmm. And then the social toolkit. 12 K.

Massimo: Yeah. And then I think we gave them like a 10% break if they did it all together. Right. So it roughly worked out to [00:41:00] 50 k. Yeah. In total. Right. Yeah. And again, that was the whole idea about we charged them 50 K for a logo. Ah, not really. But I mean, I guess one could break that way, right? One you could say that.

Massimo: Yes. Yes. And again, the reason why it worked is we took our 1, 2, 3 part. We realized we needed a lot more upfront. Yeah. It allowed us to see a lot more problems, which then, you know, we actually took advantage of afterwards we renamed the company, which we were able to bill for. Mm-hmm. Right. And this all came afterwards.

Massimo: Right. So, worked out perfectly, our process for this. Nice. And then number three? Yeah. Okay. So this is now that whole outlier that, you know, sometimes people are like, you know, well what about just for something simple like this? Mm-hmm. We had, uh, tech company number three. Mm-hmm. Okay. So they're a well-funded company.

Massimo: But they were still in growth stage. Right. Okay. They had a big team already of 75 people. Mm-hmm. But they needed an internal badge for their hr 'cause they were developing an HR program. Okay. So they wanted something that they could use internally, that they could, you know, promote internally, you know, create themes around internally, but it [00:42:00] was basically an internal logo.

Massimo: Yeah. Okay. Something that they would just use themselves. We didn't need a lot of research in the sense of how they were going to use it because of what it was. All we had to do is come up with some better ways of how they sit. Ah, okay. So our initial research and discovery phase, 'cause it was an internal badge, we didn't have to worry about competition or anything.

Massimo: There was no competition in there. It was just, it was just, you know, let's make something look fun and And edgy like they wanted. That's right. But how else could they use it? So then we came up with it, we figured out how it could look on a t-shirt. Mm-hmm. You know, on some internal banner stands. Mm-hmm.

Massimo: Potentially, you know, on like a flyer if they wanted to do something internally. Just fun ideas. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And because it was literally more or less o other than, you know, an hour of thinking how we can actually use this. Mm-hmm. Right. That's all the r and d we needed. Yeah. Right. The logo design itself was the same logo that was used on the website, on a t-shirt, on mugs.

Massimo: Yep. And we created a simple banner, which was, you know, the logo, a person and a tagline. Right. And we charge 2,500 bucks for that. Yeah. And, Again, that was probably no [00:43:00] more than what a day's worth of work. Probably not. Right. Maybe a day and a half tops. Mm-hmm. Going back and forth with revisions. It was a small amount of work.

Massimo: Yeah. But again, it was fun and it didn't require a lot of upfront. Exactly. So when using this 1, 2, 3 system, part, process, whatever you want to call it, Right. You have to gauge the customer's needs. Mm-hmm. Okay. Number one, you have to gauge the customer and, and all the other, you know, factors that we, we talked about initially, right?

Massimo: Right. Location. Are they large? Are they small location? Yeah. You know, how big is this gonna go? Right? And then you have to decide for yourself, is this gonna require a ton of upfront research? Mm-hmm. Or very minimal. Yeah. Okay. Then from there, you've got your price of roughly how long it's gonna take you to do that logo in the middle.

Massimo: And again, if you're really slow and it takes you 50, 60, 80 hours to do it. Mm-hmm. Well then, you know, you gotta speed up the process a little bit on that, but you should have an idea, you know, on repeatability, right. Process wise, how long it takes you to create a logo itself. Yeah. Once you have all the information and then anything rollout afterwards is gravy.

Massimo: Yeah. So this is the process that we use. This is how [00:44:00] we price. And again, 90. Five 98% of the time. You know, I, I actually can't remember the last time we got a know, to be honest. Yeah, right. Like it's, it's, you know, once we've gotten into our groove, once we've got our niche going, yeah. It's just been Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.

Massimo: Which maybe means we are not charging enough, but I think we're charging just fine for what we're doing. In all fairness, not really worried about that part, but, You know, some people online might say, charge those prices, double it up, then I gotta do more of a, a song and dance.

Massimo: So this is how we do it. And again, whether it works for you or not, can't say for sure. I hope you can get some parts out of this. Yeah. But in all fairness, you know, I don't see anybody actually giving away their process. Mm-hmm. And talking frankly, online. About how they're actually getting to this stage.

Shawn: You never see this kind of stuff. Like the only thing I've seen that's closest to this was that ridiculous Pepsi book, that brand book they had. You remember? It's like, okay, well that would [00:45:00] make it worth a billion dollars. Yeah, geez. Whatever 

Massimo: the fuck that was. You know what? You'd have to pay me a million dollars to read that cover the cover because it was, but it's like 

Shawn: some of this.

Shawn: Stuff was ridiculous, but they fucking did their 

Massimo: research. Oh my God. Right. Well, or they told a really, really 

Shawn: crazy story, or Yes. Or whatever, however, it was. Somebody spent a lot of time on that. Yeah. Boy did they. Yes. Holy cow. Yes. But you're right. It's like the cans and the, the signage and all this kind of stuff, that's where 

Massimo: the money goes, goes on these projects.

Massimo: That's where it goes. Yeah. So don't, don't feel discouraged if you hear. Certain people are charging 25, 50, a hundred grand for logo plus. Mm-hmm. Or you hear these crazy stories about hundreds of millions of dollars. It's not the logo they're paying for. That's right. It's the rollout, the overhaul, the brand identity system.

Massimo: It's everything there after. Yeah. So there are factors that, you know, some people might charge $2,500 for the logo design, where some people, I mean, in all fairness, I wouldn't, if it wasn't an existing customer, I wouldn't do that for 2,500 bucks. And that's a hundred percent honest. Mm-hmm. Right. We did that 'cause [00:46:00] it was internal.

Massimo: It was fun, it was easy. It was light. Yeah. It it's light. And it was an existing customer. It, yes. Somebody, but if somebody came off the street Yeah. And was like, and said this, yeah, they'd be, I need to look over 2,500 bucks. I don't know if I didn't see any upside. And this sounds horrible, but No, you're right.

Massimo: I always be lying. Two, is there gonna be more work? Right. What is the other work gonna look like? Are there bigger problems to solve? Yes. Otherwise, and this sounds horrible, A $2,500 logo doesn't excite me. I'm 

Shawn: not getting outta bed for $2,500. Wow, 

Massimo: that sounds so true. It sounds so bad, but it is. 

Shawn: It is true.

Shawn: It's true. But because of this other company, because of the established re relationship. Yep, yep. And because of our. Huge principle of customers for life. Yep. This is the kind of things that they'll look at us and say, oh shit, if we need something heavier, yes. We're gonna go to, 

Massimo: we're gonna go back. Right.

Massimo: One to Zac, if somebody was to just randomly come up and be like, this is my budget, what can you do? Yeah. Remember when I kind of questioned in the company, if right off the bat they're like, this is all I have for logos. Just like, well then, you know, you're, you're valuing the logo at this price point. [00:47:00] I don't necessarily think that that's how I view logo.

Shawn: It's back to that startup. It's back to that startup mentality. Right? It's like you're gonna fuck it up if I do this for you. Exactly, exactly. 

Massimo: Right. There has to be more to it. Yes. Right. And, and again, even that startup, that startup was, that was a, that was a good price. Yes. Yeah. For what? What was delivered.

Massimo: Yes. And they were repeat customers? Yes. They were another company that exited. Mm-hmm. And now this is a new startup. Mm-hmm. And could they have afforded more? They absolutely could have afforded more. Yep. Was I gonna gouge them? Nope. Because I know they had a successful exit. No. I was like, you know what, this is still a startup.

Massimo: Yeah. You know, they're, they're gonna work on a budget. Mm-hmm. They're gonna try to make it work. Yep. I'm gonna, you know, obviously give it to them in their budget. Mm-hmm. Right. And then, and they're gonna, they're gonna recognize that. Yep. And what happened, they've come back now with a third company and they're like, Hey, we need more work over here.

Massimo: Yes. So again, yeah. It's kind of fun. Yeah. It's 

Shawn: great 

Massimo: customers for life. I don't look at that, that single logo. I look at the rollout thereafter. That's right. That's right. If it's gonna be outside of a relationship. Mm-hmm. And then Yeah. Customers for life. Fucking 

Shawn: Yeah. [00:48:00] Rocks fucking right. Yes. Alright.

Shawn: That's how you do that. Yeah. Right. So yeah. That, so that's, that's great. This is the, this is the reasons behind what you hear. When somebody pays $211 million for a logo, remember that? Yes. It's not just that logo. Yeah, thank God. Because Right. Some of these logos are pretty, some of them are pretty, pretty questionable.

Shawn: Going 

Massimo: back to that Moosehead one, 

Shawn: I don't know what they paid for that, but I would like to find out. I'm gonna have to keep staring at that. 'cause I don't know. I, you might actually like it. I kind of like it. I kind of like it 

Massimo: looking at it a second time, you know, like it's really 

Shawn: haunting and beautiful.

Shawn: Like a Well, it is. You are right. It is. Where's, where's this line drawing thing? You know? It's, that's really good. I think both of them 

Massimo: are awesome. Gee, Sean, you know what though? Like, I think you're onto something there. You think because, you know, I, I looked at it a second time and people are gonna be like, oh fuck.

Massimo: Can you guys just make a stupid decision? Sorry guys. We're 

Shawn: Canadians. We 

Massimo: can't.[00:49:00]

Massimo: But you know what? I guess looking at it, maybe it's because I looked at it like a half an hour ago and now I'm looking at it again and I'm like, oh, there's something familiar about 

Shawn: it. I don't, I don't hate the old one though. I love the old one. I think it's fucking awesome. That big logger. Like that looks great.

Massimo: Yeah. It's so nice. You know what, let's look at it again tomorrow and see how we feel. Okay? 

Shawn: Yeah, you're right. That's seriously, that's seriously. Let's see how we feel's. I'm gonna do that. I don't like he's gonna it with breakfast. His breakfast beer. Going out to buy two for her tonight. Eh. Good G Her Done.

Shawn: Get her done. Take her for a rip.

Shawn: All 

Massimo: right everybody. That was awesome. I hope you liked what we gave today. Yeah, by all means, try some of this. If you have questions, if you want to know how to actually tailor this or, or do it for yourself and just take parts of this, hopefully this will give you some sort of guidance on how we've.

Massimo: Priced out projects. Yeah. And it has worked well for us. I feel that we've always come, you know, like we, we've done great internally, they've [00:50:00] all been profitable. Mm-hmm. And customers tend to appreciate the pricing thereafter. And there's always more work thereafter. That's right. And this is, this is always our goal when we go into a project.

Massimo: That's exactly, and don't fool yourself. This is exactly what everybody else does. Mm-hmm. And how they get these astronomical figures for their rollouts. That's right. So with that being said, you know where to find us. We're on Instagram, we're now on YouTube everywhere. All of our podcasts on YouTube.

Massimo: We'll have a couple more visuals on, on this moosehead logger there. Yeah. Um, on our YouTube, you know, check it out and help us decide. Yeah. Right. Let us know what you're thinking. Right. And, uh, and I do want to, you know, thank under consideration.com because we're, it's their logo that we actually got this from.

Massimo: It's their website and so, you know, check out that site. It's amazing. But this is always 

Shawn: confusing 'cause isn't it brand new? The 

Massimo: website is under consideration. You're right, but the section that is always under is, Brand new. Brand new. Yeah. So I think it's just part of the under consideration website. I knew, I knew branding.

Massimo: Yeah. God, come on guys. [00:51:00] Alright everybody with that being said, my name's Mossimo. My name is Sean Steak read, I stay angry. Go.[00:52:00] [00:53:00] [00:54:00] [00:55:00] [00:56:00] [00:57:00] [00:58:00]

Massimo: Go.