Has Comic Sans been replaced? A font is one of the most important part of a designers world and can either help or hurt a brand! ” The right font can provide you years of visual brand success while the wrong one will result in overhauls again and again.
What the Font” explores why designers often use Trendy fonts, the top 7 worst fonts of our time, how to use trending fonts, how to choose the right font for a design, and so much more.
This jam-packed episode has the guys hating on fonts, designs, and the poor Comic sans. 

 00:00:00
Yeah, that font is, I think that font is used by hipsters everywhere when the whole hipster movement started not in font was embraced like, wow, like burning the broad movement, 

 00:00:12
You know, like it was just like, 

 00:00:14
Do it. And, and I think that's why it's like, it's on the hated list right now. 

 00:00:18
Yeah. It is officially moved to the Hayden. Oh yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's a new comic scene. It's the new comic scene. What's that you're listening to the angry designer. It, what is, what's the deal there? Why, what happens to these fonts? So I think what makes. 

 00:00:49
A font really bad right. Is, number one, it's unreadable. Right? Okay. It's unreadable. Right. Kind of boring. It's not balanced, it's overused by people that people don't like. Yeah. Right. Think about this. Okay. Like the comic sands were used by really annoying people. Comic Sans was right. Nobody wanted to be friends with those people who overused comic, Sans everywhere. They thought they were being creative comic Sans here. Use comedy. No, no. So, so, I think when it's overused, people hate it. Yes. Also I think a bad font is also if the font itself has too much of a personality of its own. Oh right. Because again, then it's like the font does all the talking, right. Not what it's saying. It's like, it's like almost screaming. It's like that annoying little kid. You go to your friend's house, you go to your friend's house for dinner, and you're all adults. 

 00:01:44
You're trying to be nice. They have a little spoiled kid who's running around screaming, jumping up the couch and the parents just, they try to ignore it and they pretend it's not there, 

 00:01:58
But it's really annoying everybody. Don't everybody's aware of that. 

 00:02:02
Right. It's it's one of those deals, honestly like, yeah. Okay. Fine. Maybe there's some issues with letting and spacing and tracking and stuff, but I think, yeah. Like, I mean, a combination of all those things kind of make for a really crappy font. Yes. You know, interesting. Oh my gosh. Like list of bad fonts. Like the top list for horrible fonts right now. Again, comic Sans, this is only used by people overweight, older aged, or older age guys, Ryan shirts and gym teachers. And they're like, I'm still hip. I'm going to tell a cool joke and let me use comic Sans or, but like has beens who are trying to crack jokes on Facebook and stuff. They figure if we use comic Sans, it'll make it more funny. It's more funny for the wrong reasons. People are laughing, but not at the font, the infamous. 

 00:03:01
Pop Jairus. What a horrible, 

 00:03:08
Again, I don't know what, how avatar got to that. I think the executives at avatar were sleeping with piracy and that's how that made it if it was possible. Okay. Because how else could that horrible? Funt become the avatar, main logo fund is horrible. Yeah. 

 00:03:26
Oh geez. Oh my God. Hurls is another one curls. 

 00:03:31
It kind of looks like it should be like an LOL doll font, but even LOL dolphins are too cool. They use something that's round and very, slick looking very mid-century with running, Ariel bold rounded or something like that. No, no, this is curls. This is me. I'm trying to be cute. I'm trying to be really cute. You can find me on Etsy, and I think I'm okay in kids will like me, but what? Kids hate it. Cause it's just not cool. Don't use curls guys. Don't use curls, currier new. Oh, remember this. Let me pretend to be a typewriter trick. Everybody. Me so thin that no typewriter in the world would ever do this. Cause I punch a hole for the damn paper. 

 00:04:17
Curry with that. 

 00:04:18
Again, trying to be creative for the sake of, being creative. That's interesting. Here's one here's one Valdi did you ever remember this one? It's like I'm trying to be a fancy font and so use my curls and this, but it is so damn illegible. There's no way saving this font is just like. 

 00:04:41
Crash it. Get rid of it, get rid of it. 

 00:04:44
And okay. This one, it breaks my heart to say, Oh no, but Mr. Growl, okay, Hey, I'm a cool eighties surfing, but everybody used me for everything. Extreme sports, like, was trying to be scratchy, trying to be cool. I can genuinely say I did use that font. 

 00:05:05
I was 14 years old. I'm not. 

 00:05:07
Going to deny it. I was young and I used it cause that's what Mac had. Mac paint back pain. 

 00:05:16
God, what a blast from the past there and last but not least lobster. 

 00:05:24
From with all. Okay. What? And I know a lot of hipsters have jumped on the lobster train, but lobsters now comic Sans. Okay. For this century comic Sans. Okay. They had a place maybe last century. This century is now lobster. 

 00:05:39
You see it everywhere. You're right. Like run. That's absolutely true. It's it is in everything. 

 00:05:45
I know. I know I'm going to open up a little coffee shop in the corner here and let me use yes. I'm going to create something cool. And cheeky my menu. I'm going to use lobster because I don't know anything. The hipsters are using it. It must be cool. Must be, must be cool. It must be good. Oh no. I hate that. 

 00:06:04
That's so, but it's really not a terrible font. I don't, I don't fit it. 

 00:06:08
First came out. Yeah. I think it was okay. It was, we used it. I can genuinely say, I think it's just the fact that it got overused abused and it doesn't have enough, the problem is it's trendy. Yes. Right. It had too many trendy elements that are going to inhibit it from lasting forever. Right. That's the challenge. Right? If your phone starts becoming too trendy, you it's got a lifespan. As soon as something's got a lifespan, it's can be a cool lifespan or a really bad one. Now the seventies, the eighties. They're cool right now, living through them. Yeah. You were too naive to think if they were cool or not, but that decade just after them, they were not cool. Right? Like in the eighties you were looked back at the seventies, you were like, what the hell is that let's run as far as we can. 

 00:06:56
Think about it, right? Seventies kind of grungy cool hippie, like right. Eighties became new wave, completely the opposite. Then what happened in the nineties grunge. They were like, what? The eighties are too fucking, pretty guys look prettier than the women did. So let's do the opposite. Let's regain some masculinity talk home like this and wear like plaid jackets and a Seattle movement lumberjack. Right? Like, and so that's the problem. If the font is too trendy, it outdates itself way the hell too fast. Right. You got to stay away from that shit. Yeah. Right. That's that's honestly how you can tell an experienced designer versus a newbie honestly, is their font choice, right. Above anything else because fonts, you need to have that experience. I don't know, like to tell the difference, but you know, like it's just, when designers use trendy fonts to create brands with it, like, you know that, you know, there's no experience if it's a trend font, because that brand will outdate itself really quickly. 

 00:08:00
That's the problem we always recommend against it. Yeah. Right. Like you can't don't if somebody is looking for some help, they need a brand, creation brand update, they need a, a new logo design. If you jump on something that's trendy and you use lobster, we'll look lobster maybe three years ago was kind of cool four years ago, but everybody hates it now. Right. What happens, your logo is outdated instantly. It's fricking outdated instantly, but really it has. 

 00:08:31
Limited space, I think too. Right. Cause like somebody like a Ford or IBM or something like that, they're not going to use a font like that. Absolutely not. So you really kind of limiting. 

 00:08:48
A hundred percent. Interestingly enough, when you see those brands, right. So these are brands, so, okay. First off, logos coming to passions right there, wordmark or their icon based. Right, right. Some of the most popular wordmarks okay. Like you just, you mentioned for right. They use font choices that stand the test of time. They're not trendy. Okay. Like from our list here, so like Ford, right. They haven't changed their logo for God knows how long my God. Right. They have fun with the brands that they create. Yes. Right. But Ford itself is solid the same. Right. Same logo forever and ever brawn, beautiful font. Joyce it's a wordmark there's no Mark needed there. Right. And it's, and it's nice legible. It's tight. It doesn't, it's not trending, they're not jumping on anything. They did something creative with the letter a right. That makes it Braun. 

 00:09:41
It's theirs cannon. Another example, it's a song Sarah font, but sure enough, they tweaked it to make their own vans, shoes. Okay. Not particularly the best logo in all fairness, but basic font. Yeah. They played with the letter V. Yep. Right. They've had it now for how many decades and it just right. It's they haven't updated it and good on them. Maybe they're do give us a call. But, but like other companies sharp, Sony, Nokia, IBM RCA, Volvo Toyota, you don't triumph. The flipping Canada logo is got like Garamon font. Again, it looks just as good as it was created like 50 years ago. Well fricking cool. Even Netflix. Yeah. Okay. Yep. They took a font and they added their little, what do you want to call that? They're not their swoosh, but they're, there are, one of, be screen type idea where you're kind of looking and again, it's, they haven't had to do much. 

 00:10:45
They haven't picked a trendy font. Their first logo was a trendy font. Right. It was, and they replaced that shit. Now this is going to last forever. Right. Honestly the most amazing word bark that has a hidden element in it. Right. The FedEx local, right. It's like a total Sans serif font. The font is never going to outdate it. Won't, there's nothing too to outdate. It's bold, easy to read is blocky. And it's simple. It almost kind of brings back this whole nostalgic, this whole kid like feeling when you look at it, you smile. Right. When you notice that little hidden arrow in that Mark, it's brilliant. Whether it was by intention or by accident, they did a great job. Yes. Again, they chose fonts wisely, something that was not going to outdate. And that's how people should choose fonts. Yes. Because the font is a direct reflection of your brand of your business. 

 00:11:42
Do what I mean? If you put lobster as your business bond, it's it you've done. You've sized yourself. You basically told the world I'm never going to be much bigger than a local little shop. That's right. Right. Good luck with and keep a couple of bucks aside because in two years you're going to be rebranded. You're going to need to be rebranded. Graphic designers everywhere, keep an eye out for those little shit that are using lobster fonts on their menus and their signage, because they're going to need help. Surely easy money guys, easy money, just go and get them. Like literally they're forcing themselves to look small, local trendy, like seriously, Hey, you're purposely choosing something that's going to outdate. This sucks because again, the font choice you make will either take your brand, way into the future or it'll outdate your brand very quickly. 

 00:12:31
We have a customer who is an awesome customer. We love them. Awesome. And, and I'm not just saying that to some kissing us, they rock. And, they're right now going through a growth spurt. They're, they're growing even crazier because they're in the broadband space and it's a hot space to be in right now. Right. And, and they've been around for, like 12 years now. No, they've been around a lot more than that, however right. When they created their logo, right. It's a two part it's part word, and it's part icon. The icon is brilliant. It still works. I think the icon is just as great. The font choice that they had was something, a little trendier for the time. It was very distinctive. The time it was very late nineties. Right. So, although, they were great in new back then, right. It was something that kind of had of like a graver plate type field. 

 00:13:18
Remember that one like that graver place. And the problem is now they're everywhere. They recognize the fact that their font looks a little outdated, which makes the brand look a little outdated. The problem is they've had 20 years. They're now going through that. So they've done incredibly well. The past 20 years now they're going through a growth spurt. Now it's like even more propelling them into the future in a very technical space. Their font choice in the local looks outdated. And the problem is great company. Everybody loves them, but their logo is everywhere. It's in all their documentation. It's all over the web. It's all over their website, all of their materials, their business cards, this, that, this, that it keeps going and going that now making that change is difficult, ? And it's like, the challenge is now trying to find, a good opportunity on, where to start, where do I reveal a new logo or a new brand. 

 00:14:11
Right. And how far to take it. Again, our recommendation of course was keep the word Mark for the most part. Yeah. Slight little bit of an update and then make the font a classic font. That'll never change it. One that will be just as cool in 20 years as it is today. Right. I think they fell victim to that. Right. They, they fell victim to that, unfortunately. And now they're feeling the struggle. The thing is when you start a business, you have to think, am I, do I want my brand to last for a couple of years? Or do I want it to be a lifetime? Right. Really? You'd like to ideally think your lifetime and that list of brands that we mentioned, the cannons, the vans, the sharps, yeah. Those logs have been around forever. Oh my, that RCA logo. 

 00:14:52
The RC again for ever. Yeah. So this is helpful. 

 00:14:56
People have to think when they're creating a brand, they have to think longevity. Like they have to think like, I never want to change our brand. Right. I mean, granted, even our brand here does that in factor, it's pretty simple. It's pretty basic. I don't want to change it. I really don't. It's letters. It's a word Mark with a square rounder. It's pretty boring for all intensive purposes. Yeah. 

 00:15:15
But, but that's like a pair of jeans we've never had to last forever. Exactly. Right. 

 00:15:20
That's, I don't want to work it, but something like that. So that was a challenge. Yeah. 

 00:15:25
That's, that's interesting that graver plate that it's got like Sarah or something like, right. 

 00:15:30
Yeah. The little kind of stuff. Yeah, 

 00:15:33
Yeah, yeah. 

 00:15:36
Yeah. That's probably where they got that name from. Right. Like when you look at places like, these cheap services like experienced designers versus, the newbies and you go to places like, Fiverr, people for our 99 designs, these people who are designers, I mean, they're really doing a disservice to everybody else out there because what they're doing is they're taking trendy fonts. Right. They're looking at what's hot, what's trendy. They're slapping a mediocre icon often too. It's something very generic, a swoosh, or, , 

 00:16:09
Like data lines, you know, adding. 

 00:16:12
A drop shadow of grading and they're selling it as a logo and people are buying it because they don't know any better. Right. And honestly, that's, it kills companies. It kills brands. Because again, when you start, when a company actually does start excelling moving forward. Yeah. Well, right off the bat, they're going to have to change their logo within no time because their logo would just, it outdates self, now all the sudden you're using a technical font that looked like the matrix from, three years ago. 

 00:16:38
Huge. No, don't go there. 

 00:16:41
It's such a sticky wicket because if you're hiring the same designer, who's just doing what the trendy stuff is. You're going to be rebranding every three years. Absolutely. This is ridiculous. You need, you need that experience. You need somebody who understands timelessness. 

 00:17:00
Right. That, and maybe that comes with experience. And I think he does. I think you're absolutely right. Certainly it does, right? Because again, we recognize, I mean, right now, my first choice, when I'm creating logos, I'm still looking for inspiration from mid-century stuff. And big century stuff still looks beautiful. Now there's meaning behind it. They're bold lines are easy to recognize. The fonts are easy to read again, that list that I just gave you, these are all companies that have had the same load, same wordmark for 50 plus years. They look just as good now as they did. People might try to say that, people might say, Oh, but there are dated brands. They're not like the new technical, the new tech age, the new internet age. The funny thing is there was this font study, there actually was a font study. Okay. Yeah. There was this font study that analyzed 1000 of the top startups from product hunt. 

 00:17:59
Okay. Product hunt is a fantastic medium, right. Basically just lists all the startups, the hot startups, and so many startups that have been listed on them have just blown up from there. Okay. They've analyzed a thousand of the top startups from product hunt. Okay. They looked at the designers of the best of those startups and they realize that they don't use trendy fonts who will font surprise. Because generally, somebody with some maturity gets in there and helps build, right. This isn't people's first time around. They realize what the hell they're doing. So, instead these designers, these brands, they rely on good old fashioned system fonts. Some of the more popular Google fonts, like the future is the how that it goes, the garam ons, the Avenue right there. They're choosing fonts that they realize, they're not going to outdate. They modify them to make them their own. 

 00:18:54
Yeah. That's what people should be doing for their brand. Because again, if you have to redesign that brain to keep up with the times you're doing a disservice to the brand, because it's a boat a lot more than just keeping up your logo and your wordmark and your brand, like that's what ad campaigns and all the Facebook marketing, social media marketing is for like, keep up with the trends that way. Don't worry about the company brand itself. The company brand has to be deeper than that. Again, not, I'm not saying don't ever use trendy fonts and there's not a place for it because it's stupid to think that I'm not, I'm absolutely not saying that. It's just, you've got to know where and how to use them. Right. Use them as a headline font, maybe on your website or, on an ad. Right. Like something that's intentionally, it was going to outdate, that it's timestamps, so jump on it, for it, what I mean? Like if your whole campaign is something trendy about, I don't know, small cafes use flipping lobster font, if it's something about speed, you, something that looks fast. 

 00:19:57
Right. But, it's only a short time and it just has to help, reemphasize that message. Jump on that trend, font and wagon and use that font. Yeah. Maybe a campaign, maybe a piece of literature, a hitters on a website, some quick social media types of something that, is not going to be as critical as your corporate brand. Yeah. Our logo, or maybe even as part of like your, a brand guidelines, like don't commit. 

 00:20:23
Trendy, France. 

 00:20:25
To something that should stand the test of time. Yeah. That's, that's my whole point. 

 00:20:30
Yeah. I would agree. We on that with you on that one, for sure. Yeah. What are your thoughts on impact you familiar with that. 

 00:20:37
You don't want, Sean, that's funny. I was trying to come up with my list of the bad fonts I saw impact. And I personally hate it. I, that there's better versions of it these days, 

 00:20:49
But I know you like it. I like the impact that impact fund Gibbs. I just find the spaces just too tight. So, you, would, you with your glasses, sir had issues reading that just cause it's so damn tight. 

 00:21:09
No, it's funny because it's funny that with this conversation it's like every meme ever has impact. Right. Does, right. That overexposure? Is this, why is this why people aren't liking this? 

 00:21:22
That's what, why people are starting to, this is an interesting theory going from my list and my list, what makes a bad font it's used too much to not bounce will impact is balanced because all the letters are basically squares and tight. But is it unreadable? Yes. 

 00:21:38
I'm quick glance impacted. 

 00:21:39
It is very difficult to track it really. 

 00:21:42
All fairness though, we have used impact in the past. As the basis of a lot of the word marks that we've created some of the word marks, but we separate, we give it some more letters to space, a bit more air. We do some things with it because again, some of the faults on that font, but it's a classic font, but some of the faults or the spacing is very tight. 

 00:22:02
Yes. It's, it's like a specific saw by like a jigsaw. It doesn't really one thing, you're going to have to cut that. 

 00:22:11
When your tree in the backyard with a jigsaw. Absolutely. 

 00:22:14
It has a very specific kind of, 

 00:22:16
It's funny impact is one of those ones. I know for a fact, when we started this company 20 years ago, we used it a lot. Really we did because it was hip and it was, and it had a good point. Like it was yeah. Newer and it was impact. Now I just feel that there's, more, better choices that just have just addressed some of those, like address some of the tight spacing, some of the main I've learned the error of my ways. 

 00:22:43
If I'm, if I use something heavy and bold, you have that a case is just the greatest of all time. Right. It's legible when it's track really tight. It's just perfect. It's not fancy. 

 00:22:56
As the world, as a total designer. I have to say that. I think we all love how bad. 

 00:23:02
This is. Exactly it. Why wouldn't, when are the people on Fiverr and 99 designs and things like that using that more often? 

 00:23:09
Honestly, Shawn it's because the people on these platforms are inexperienced designers. If you haven't, if you're inexperienced is not a very exciting font, they are wanting the font to do all the work for them. Right. We talked about right. They want a font that looks fast, that looks trendy because it amps up their work because just makes it easier for, they can't actually see through the actual design. They can't see the form of the action, right? So this is. Again, it goes back to saying that, like some of the best designers out there only use a handful of design, fonts, and they will make them work time and net. Because again, it's more than just about a stupid font, don't get me wrong, not stupid. That's wrong. That's taboo. I should never say that. What I mean is, there's more to, it needs to have message. 

 00:23:58
It needs to be much deeper. There has to be, substance to what it's trying to say. Even even a basic word, Mark, needs to have substance, very few word marks. Like time can just get away with just four letters and making it work. But they did. Yes. Right time. Isn't just a standard time, right? Like, I mean, if you look at that logo, what does it, I think it's times new Roman, is that what it is? I don't know. Or I knew at one point, but again, the tracking's a little different on it. They did tweak the letters slightly, but they owned it for so very few companies can even do that. RCA. IBM, Porsche, they're all classic fonts, but they're tweaked to be made. There's only specific. And I think that's the key. I think a lot of these guys on these platforms, they're inexperienced. 

 00:24:44
They just want to make a quick buck in all fairness. Maybe they just want a lot of experience. So they figure, you know, high volume. 

 00:24:51
Work will get them there, but. 

 00:24:53
It's not the case. It's not, they need a good design process. They need to stop slow down and actually think what the heck. 

 00:25:01
So, so what you're saying basically is a lot of these people, aren't really thinking long-term, they're not because of the inexperience. Yes. They just, they're going hip whatever's fresh right now. Yes. 

 00:25:12
That is the difference in all fairness, that's the difference between, a $50, a hundred dollars logo and a hundred thousand dollars again, the brand, the maybe while the final product might be the same as in, it's a piece of literature, it's a logo design. It's a wordmark or something. Yeah. It's, it's the process of getting there. Yeah. Do what I mean? What your what's your company doing now? It's like, when you start a branding project with somebody, right. It's not just cleaning up what they have now, it's digging deeper to find out what are their business goals? What's their strategy? What are they doing? Right. What opportunities are they missing out right in? You're helping them define their brand, not for today, but for the future. Right. Right. Again, then when you finally get all of these questions in place, you need to find something to actually, represent that and a trendy font that only has three to five year life span. 

 00:26:07
It's pretty shitty. What pretty sure you should example to say, Hey, this is what I want my company to be like. Right. 

 00:26:13
Yes. Yes. Just very sad. I think, Oh totally. It's killer. But, but of these fonts, are there any that you think might survive? Like, or maybe my question is why is comics? So it's so derided and everybody hates it, but it's still a ground it's everywhere. You see it on everything because people know when either, because they just have no clue what a, that's a good question. You know, what's interesting. I find, 

 00:26:44
You know, 

 00:26:44
The, why Sean was that because calming songs slept with bill Gates, 

 00:26:49
Just like the pirates did for avatar signs and bill Gates had a secret affair. I knew it was killing it against it. 

 00:26:59
A good point, actually. I don't know why people can't ever get rid. I guess to some people, they think it serves a purpose. It looks comical. That is better comic fonts. If you want to look like a comic book, there are definitely better, 

 00:27:12
Well, they're way better for hugs and pirates. Like piracy was a to me, I think it was like, it's like a, an exotic kind of a font. Right. Oh geez. I think he kind of got used in that kind of vein, what I mean? Like yeah. Like fancy serious, 

 00:27:29
He may be okay again, papaya was maybe had a place in like, headlines and such, but as a logo font, I think there was some like yoga studios that use that. 

 00:27:41
Right. Oh, I know if see, and that's the thing and I, I really feel bad for the poor designers of these. Oh, I know. Imagine if your baby was comic sons' or piracy and the hell that you just get, every time you go on. 

 00:27:59
Late, late at night, Sean. Sometimes I like look up in the ceiling in my bedroom and I see these shadows and they just, I get really scared and they're moving. And when I look, 

 00:28:09
Yes, sir, the shadows, I tend to fucking put pirates on looking at me. I'm like, not put pirates. 

 00:28:25
Just to consider when choosing a font for a logo. I did make a small little list. Oh, that's good. Yeah, I did. I did so things to consider when choosing a font for a logo. First off, obviously we got to figure out, you have to decide, is it a word Mark, or is it a local market that you're working for? Right. That you're looking for. Often you don't know until you start going down this process. Okay. Of course, the difference, a word Mark, just basically it's a font choice and it's just a font. Your logo becomes a font. It's nothing else other than a font choice, right. 

 00:28:59
Like time, of course, 

 00:29:02
Versus, a logo Mark, which is something that uses something else, an icon, it uses an accent of a sword with a font to kind of represent your logo so that you don't think of it as like, the Apple versus like, time, magazines time. Yeah. Right, right. You know, so examples. First off, and sometimes you may not know what that difference is. I get, if in fact you want it, if it's a logo Mark that you're after, right. Let's say for whatever reason, you're like, what? I found this image that totally represents our brand. This is totally great, it's ducks flying over a sunset, Hey, what, love your ducks, but make sure the font choice that you use underneath that they shouldn't be busy. They don't take away from the actual ducks. Okay. Like really, they need to compliment it. Basically you're combining a font with an image. 

 00:29:57
That font doesn't have to work that hard because again, you don't want to detract from those damn ducks. Okay. Because for whatever reason you chose that duck and that duck is now going to become your brand. Again, that font choice needs to compliment the image or the icon or the logo Mark, I guess if you want to talk about it like that, now, if it's a word Mark that you're going after, all right, you got to first off figure, take a look at the fonts, right? Take a look at them, letters in that word, Mark of your brand and see what kind of relationship there is with the letters. See if there's some secret meaning or connection that you can create. Not everybody's going to be as blessed to have like FedEx and have the arrow. That's perfectly represented their brand. Like, looking at like the triumph logo, maybe there's an accent, a swoosh that you can actually work in that sense or the Braun logo where you can accentuate a certain font or make a connection. 

 00:30:56
So, again, I seem to, even though I'm shocked that I'm saying this, I tend to favor wordmarks the company brands, because wordmarks tend to stand the test of time. Yes. Right. They're really good. Even the last logo that we did, it was actually, it's more of a wordmark than a logo. We just took a word and made it upside down. Yeah. Right. Again, it's so it is a word Mark. It's just working harder. Exactly. Be a fan of these ones, use simple fonts, which are really clear. They're legible. They're great in all sizes, the Canada logo. So interestingly enough, the Canada logo, right. You have a flag that's over top of the eight over top of the a, that's actually not a flag over top of the, a, the D is a flag pole and the flag is actually, so it was just coincidentally enough, the flag actually flies over the letter a right. 

 00:31:50
Again, it's these small little touches that tell for a fantastic story. Yes. Right. That's key. If you're going to create something like a word Mark, and if it's clear and legible, you're just your gold. Yeah. If you are going to create a logo with a tagline or something else in it, or a specific font or, letter action accentuated trying to stick to two logos or two fonts, no more than two fonts. More than two, no more than two fonts in that. Because then all of a sudden you're starting to conflict styles, shapes, weights. It's just, it's too much to handle. It really is. Yes. More than anything else, avoid trendy fonts. Okay. Did you can do is look trendy fonts for inspiration, see what the trendy fonts are doing that makes you interested in them. Right. It their angle? Is it their shape? Is it, the way certain letters, accentuate their asanders of their descenders, look to those for inspiration to see what it is about it that you like. 

 00:32:56
Yes. Try it and try to apply that to a classic font. That's not going to outdate itself in a week or two or a month or a year. 

 00:33:04
Cause I'm going to guess that some of these trendy fonts it's already been done. Right. Probably better, somebody has taken a riffing on a classic and kind of created lobster. 

 00:33:16
What I mean? A hundred percent. Yeah. Lobster used to be, it looks like it was based off of that whole, like, swooshes into the letters, go Rosemont. Exactly, exactly. Like, right. Like, but classier than that, but yeah, you're right. I think that's all, so it had the, it came from somewhere, but the funny thing is Sean, so we just created a logo for a font and it was a classic font, but it used that swoosh, that collegiate then, and it took their logo and put it through. Cause they wanted to have fun with it. Okay. Yeah. I don't think that there's anything about that. That's overly trendy, but they probably could pull that out in five years, maybe even 10 years and reuse it. Yeah. Right. Again, it's we chose more classic fonts. Yes. We did something with them to make it their own. Right. 

 00:34:05
Again, look at the greats, look at the bronze, the FedEx, the Netflix, the Porsche's they're able to own that by taking the classic font and just making it timeless. Yes. So again, find a classic font. Yeah. And make it timeless. Yes. Really beautiful. I think that's it. Yeah. 

 00:34:23
Yeah. I liked it. If again, this is a classic case of, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Like you look back on the history and some of these classic fonts, they are classics for a reason. Yes. Yes. These are beautiful fonts. I think to go back to a point with you mentioned it's like with fonts doing the work, I think that's is a brilliant statement because you're right. Inexperience, you see these awesome fonts and they're really hip and really trending yet. 90% of your work is done there. Right. Yeah. Which is really shitty. That's you're not going to learn this. The design is in the backend of it is the fund has taken this good stuff and turning it into something right. For this client in particular. 

 00:35:08
Making them realize it actually was a thought process behind again, a brand is more than skin deep. Yeah. Right. Totally. It all, wherever that works, I don't even know what that tagline is, 

 00:35:20
Beauty is only skin deep, but you're right. You're right. Is only skin deep. That's actually, that's really good. Right? Your brand goes a lot deeper than just the skin. 

 00:35:30
It does. That's where it's like, you have to think further. You have to think deeper. If you're happy with just the bare minimum, if you're happy with just what's on the surface, like then judge your way, just be that book by its cover. Right. Judge, that damn book. If that's the case, I'm going to give it a chance. What I'm trying to say, that. 

 00:35:49
I know exactly where you've tried to like. 

 00:35:51
Again, if it's yeah. It's, it's got to go deeper. That logo has to tell a better story. If it's just, Hey, guess what? We pick this because if it's a look I'm looking at your time, 

 00:36:02
Have this a CBC logo. So for those of you, right, 

 00:36:08
Exactly. The CBC logo has got a letter C in the middle and CBC is a broadcasting company and every direction up left. Right. Down has pieces of that letter C spanning out to kind of show that it's emanating a signal Shrike and it is such a beautiful classic Canadian logo. It's time. It's. 

 00:36:29
Beautiful. Anywhere. It's beautiful. Yeah. Right. 

 00:36:32
That's what I mean, you have to think deeper. Right. They took the letter C and expand, and then they made a lo and what? That logo, it looks just as good today as it did 50 years, 

 00:36:42
60, 70 years ago. How old is it? It's gotta be that old. Right? 

 00:36:46
I, yeah. That's, that's the point. That's, that's a brand that's gonna stand. 

 00:36:49
The test of time and ironically, it's on a t-shirt now, which means it's kind of hip it's hip. I don't know. Maybe in the eighties it might've been square. I don't think so. No, I don't think so. I revamped it since which I'm not really happy. 

 00:37:04
They've they've kind of, but again, what's old is cool. 

 00:37:08
This is exactly right. There was a lot of thought and care that went into this kind of thing. Very interesting. That was really good. Who thought that you could go on about fonts this long? It made me think about my love of impact and maybe I'm misplaced in this misguided, that relationship with him. It was when I was like listening to, I dunno, Nirvana or something like that, we'll be back in the nineties. What I mean? Like, Oh, I used to use this all the time. 

 00:37:40
It was just making a point. 

 00:37:45
It's very, it's a very difficult for it to you're absolutely. Right. Right. Okay, buddy. All right. Well that was really good. Thank you for that. Cool. Nicely done. If you like, what you heard today, maybe share this with other people. Do you want to tell people this is what we do. Let's plan this out. If you share this dammit with other people guys. Okay. Your ass. Piras your eyes. Piras your ass. All right. Well, with that being said, I am Mossimo. I am Shaw. We are.