How-to DESTROY Your Career as a Graphic Designer – A Path to Failure


Aren’t you tired of always being told what to do to become a BETTER Graphic Designer, or to design a better Logo, or to be a better Freelancer?

There is so much self help out there – our minds become numb to it! What if however, there was a list so ridiculous, that to be successful, you just had to do the opposite?

In this weeks episode of The Angry Designer Podcast, we enter a world of opposites – providing you a detailed list of how to DESTROY your career as a Graphic Designer, forcing you to think of how ridiculous choices can actually be? 

WARNING: Side effects of listening to this episode may include uncontrollable laughter, an urgent need to improve your design skills, and a sudden appreciation for sanity. Proceed with caution, and remember, this episode is for entertainment purposes ONLY! 

Episode Transcript

Massimo: Use lots of fonts. 

Shawn: You, you can never have too many fonts. You can never, you can never, you always, and always use the most hip ones. Right. 

Massimo: Mix them up. Right. Have 4, 5, 6 different fonts in your Leos. Okay. Yes. Because again, it keeps it exciting. Oh, 

Shawn: that is, Such a great, yes, it's it's a 

Massimo: really cool fucking way Yes.

Massimo: To design. Okay. Yes. Go for it.

Massimo: You're listening to the Angry Designer where we cut through the industry bold to help frustrated graphic designers survive and thrive. What a good day. What a 

Shawn: good day This was. Blow me. It was great, wasn't it? That was a great idea. 

Massimo: I'm not even gonna 

Shawn: practice it a little bit for, for our English 

Massimo: fans. So we did start the day.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. It was like a great way to start the 

Shawn: day because was, that was an awesome, awesome way to start a day. Right. 

Massimo: We had an interview today. We [00:01:00] interviewed, I guess, our next guest. Yeah. Which we will let you know at the end of this episode. Yep. You're gonna wanna listen to this whole episode number one, because it's a great episode.

Massimo: Yep. And number two, because we had a great fucking interview, which we'll go into detail about, but we're not gonna say who it is at the end. Eh? You might be able to figure it out. Yeah. You know, but at the same time, What a way to start a fucking day. That was awesome because it was a shitty week, otherwise, yeah.

Massimo: I had people cancel on me. Yes. With like no notice. Yes. I had another customer today, throw me under the bus with his marketing person, and I'm like, are you fucking 

Shawn: kidding me? I heard that that was the, the notorious one that we Woo. Yeah. I, wow. That was a, that was a heated, uh, discussion, dude. I just want 

Massimo: to finish that job.

Massimo: Yeah. And be done with it. Kill it and bille it. That's it. This is one of those Kill it and billet times. Yes, exactly. And this is, this is that odd customer that I don't think he understands how humans communicate. And again, it, it's taken many years to understand how to work with this client. Yes, yes. But I think I'm at, is it worth it?

Massimo: Yeah. No, and, and at this [00:02:00] point it's, you know, a, we're not excited working on the projects anymore. Right, right. We don't love the projects. It's always like a, oh fuck, right? Mm-hmm. And number two, well, we're not being financially compensated for working on projects that we don't love. Yes. It's, you know what, Hey, pay me 150%, you know, or 200% are hourly rate.

Massimo: Sure 

Shawn: will. Then we'll do it. We'll, I'll do anything happily, 

Massimo: but it's just like, dude, I'm not making money on this. And I'm not enjoying it. Yeah. So why are we doing this? Yeah. We're putting, so this was a matter of let's just finish the job. Yeah. Get it out. You know, because it's still, I'm still excited about the job.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. Just not working 

Shawn: with the customer. Just not working out. Yeah. 

Massimo: Yep, yep, yep, yep. So I have no idea how to segue in tonight's. Topic of conversation. Right. Do do it backwards. 

Shawn: Okay. Cause I, I just want to say, set up this, this is one of these episodes where I have no idea what's happening to me. Sean has no, no 

Massimo: fucking idea what the hell we're doing.

Massimo: Okay. He, 

Shawn: he, he kind of has a than normal. Yeah. Right. 

Massimo: So there [00:03:00] is this Italian. Game show I watched with my dad, right? Yes. And uh, you gotta love the fucking Italian game shows, right? The best, best, no rules apply. Mm-hmm North America we understand, you know, sexism. Mm-hmm We understand, you know, you don't wanna like play into people's, you know, features.

Massimo: Whether they're big broody guys or handsome or girls with, you know, very big fe well none of that applies in Italy. They're still all about look good. Do and I mean this show is crazy cuz. There's no shame. Yeah. They'll have a scantily clad girl, right As their hostess or, or as one of the extra ho, and you know when they'll zoom in, they don't zoom in in the face.

Massimo: Yeah. They start at the BuZZo and they move up. Same with the dudes. They've got the buff guys on there and they start at the six pack and they s roll up. I'm watching this in disbelief that it's actually on tv. I'm like, how is this even getting away? Like, But the ultimate end of this, it ends up being like a 25 questions they have to answer.

Massimo: Right. And And it's timed. Oh, it is. Okay. Okay. And the [00:04:00] correct way to answer these questions is you have to answer. The wrong question. So if I'm like, okay, Sean, two seconds quick. What color is the sky 

Shawn: blue? Nope. Wrong. Oh, right. You lose, right. You have to say 

Massimo: black. Oh, I gotta say black. Right? You have to constantly be thinking of the wrong question.

Massimo: Oh, and it, shit, that's hard. It is hard. And it really kind of fucks with your mind. Yeah. Because it's like, you know when you're doing this whole opposites game. Mm-hmm. Right? It you have to actually intentfully first. Do the O think of the opposite. Right. And then make a decision for, you know, the wrong, it was.

Massimo: It's a really messed up way of thinking things through. It's an extra step. The whole point of this exercise isn't necessarily, everybody's tired about do this in order to succeed. Yes. And do that to succeed. Yes. And everybody's getting kind of tired of constantly being reminded, oh, if you wanna be successful, do this, do this, do this, do this.

Massimo: Right. Yeah. So, What we are gonna do tonight Yeah. Is I'm gonna give you 25 career killers for graphic designers. Okay? Okay. You wanna kill [00:05:00] your career? Do do this, these 25 things, okay? Because this is guaranteed to kill. Kill your career. Your career, all right? And in fact, what this is gonna do is it's now it's.

Massimo: It's the opposite now. You're like, well, if I wanna succeed, I just don't have to do that. If I want to be a good designer, yeah. I just don't do that. I do 

Shawn: the opposite. Don't do this. So it's, it's like talking to my kid then when she was a teenager, you know, like, don't do this. And they would do it and they would do it.

Shawn: Shit works man. The shit works. Okay. 

Massimo: Okay. And you have. No idea what this list is. I have 

Shawn: no clue. Yes, this is scary. But for the 

Massimo: record, the title of the show Yeah. Is 25 Ways To Kill Your Career To Destroy Your Career To Annihilate. Oh, wow. Your career up in 

Shawn: Flames 

Massimo: as a graphic design. Oh, wow. 

Shawn: All right. Okay.

Shawn: This is good. Let's start off with fonts. Okay. Okay. 

Massimo: Yeah. Career killer number one with fonts. Use lots of fucking fonts. You, you can never 

Shawn: have too many fonts. You [00:06:00] can never, you can never, you always, and always use the most hip once. Right. Mix 

Massimo: them up. Right. Have 4, 5, 6 different fonts in your Leos. Okay. Yes.

Massimo: Because again, it keeps it exciting. 

Shawn: Oh, that is such a great, yes. It's, it's a really 

Massimo: cool fucking way Yes. To design. Okay. Yes. So, and number one, use. Lots of fonts. That's right. 

Shawn: Go to font squirrel or DEF font and just def get the weirdest shit 

Massimo: you could. Download. Download, download. Okay. All in that.

Massimo: Guaranteed. Guaranteed. Fantastic way to use. 

Shawn: I love it. Okay. Okay. Let's two. Yeah. 

Massimo: Okay. Mm-hmm. Always center a line. Oh, your texts center a line. Okay. Your headlines, your sub headlines. Even fucking body copy. No, nevermind. Even the important stuff like bullet points. Yes. Center. 

Shawn: Oh, align that shit. My favorite bullet point is the center line.

Shawn: The center line. 

Massimo: Right. I mean it's, it's easier on the eyes of course cuz it's just, you know, when you start aligning [00:07:00] to the left, it's just, it gets boring because books. Are aligned to 

Shawn: the left. No, everybody reads that way. You know, 

Massimo: whatever you, you almost have to think twice. No, no. Let's mix this up. And I and, and I love, cause I hear it from customers all the time.

Massimo: Center Alignness please. Right. Nothing is more exciting in a layout when the text is center aligned. Yes, I 

Shawn: absolutely agree. And you know, it's funny because I get decks from our clients with the center line bullet points and it's just like, wow, I know. Did this to 

Massimo: a new level center align your text. In PowerPoint Presentations.

Massimo: In 

Shawn: PowerPoint. Yeah. There you go. Dude, I was only 

Massimo: thinking on web and in ads. 

Shawn: No, you could really hit the shitty bottom. Wow. Do it now. That's fantastic. Yes. I never thought. Good. Good one. 

Massimo: Good one. All right. Number three. Three. All right. Okay. Yep. If you need to. Mm-hmm. Don't be scared to stretch fonts. Oh, yes.

Massimo: I mean, there's a reason why Adobe put that feature in there. Yes. Where you can grab the fonts and stretch them wider. [00:08:00] Okay. Like this whole kerning thing? Yeah. Like a really overrated, okay. Yeah, like. Adobe's used it. Yeah. They put it there for a reason. Mm-hmm. Why else would they have it there? Right? Yes, exactly.

Massimo: If the space allows and you need to stretch that. Yes. Nothing is more interesting than a bastardized font. Yes. In my 

Shawn: opinion. Yes, totally. And you know, the best part is, is you could take like gilson's, like the big fat black one, right. And then squeeze it up. That's really good. Opposite. You condense it. Oh yeah.

Shawn: This, yeah. I'm going, I'm going with your opposite theme here. Ah. You condense a bold or black font. It really has a nice character too. Nothing 

Massimo: says I love typography. Yes. Then when you take the font in your own hands Yes. And you take liberties to stretch. Stretch, it skew the way 

Shawn: it should have been done the way it's supposed 

Massimo: to be done.

Massimo: Like, fuck, Kara has been around for too long. You know? No, no. 

Shawn: Using it straight. No. Forget it. No, no, no. It's not, it's not the way they intended it when they made that day. Absolutely. They wanted it stretched and squeezed and pinched. Exactly. Prodded, 

Massimo: exactly. So that's 

Shawn: number three. Okay guys. Beautiful. I'm, I'm doing good here, [00:09:00] right?

Shawn: Okay. Don't be scared to 

Massimo: stretch. Fonts. Yes. Number four. Okay. Look for the hottest trendiest fonts out right now. Oh. Oh, okay. And use them. Oh, don't waste your time with those boring, you know, traditional fonts that have always been around, like the hellvetica is. Yeah. The, the, the ones that you, you know, you've heard around for decades and decades.

Massimo: Yeah. Everybody's seen them. Yeah. They're boring. Yes. Okay. Why use them in your designs? Look for the trendiest shit. You hit the trendiest, right? Yes. The shit that you know is like, wow, AI is hot right now. And this font speaks ai that'ss, right? That's right. He was used in a movie. Yeah. Even better. 

Shawn: Yes. Fuck.

Shawn: That's right. And for good reference. See that, uh, Saturday Night Live sketch on On Papyrus? On Bru. That's always a good line. That's all. Yeah, that's always a good one. Yes. Raja Madani is your friend. It's your friend 

Massimo: guys. Go download that shit immediately. Okay? Yes. Damn. So look for the hottest fonts out there right now.

Massimo: And use. Use 'em. Use 'em in your logos. Use 'em in your [00:10:00] ads. Everything. Oh, everything. 

Shawn: Use that shit. Yes. Cool. Body copy. 

Massimo: All works. All right. And number five. Mm-hmm. Okay. Our last one on fonts. Oh, okay. Okay. All right. Don't worry about legibility, guys. Oh, seriously. Okay. Because the cooler, the font Yes. The better.

Massimo: Yes. It doesn't have to be read Yes. Easily anyway. Yes. Because I mean, customers are all into it for the design. Yes. They, they don't need to read that shit. Okay. Yes. Fucking David Carson has been doing it forever, and I mean, again, We're all just as good as David Parson. We are. Okay. So if he can do it, yeah.

Massimo: Yeah. Why can't you? Right. I mean, he's the How long could it be? Right? Exactly right. Geez. So don't be scared to use fonts that are completely illegible. Yes. Because again, that's, that's the best part of our industry ing all the rules. Okay. 

Shawn: We're not in the communication industry anyway. Really, are we? No, we're, we're not.

Shawn: We're artists. Yeah. We're artists. We, we don't. Yes, exactly. You know? Yeah. So quickest way to [00:11:00] destroy 

Massimo: your career, fonts wise. Number one, use lots of fonts. Yes. Number two, always center line, that shit. Number three, don't be scared to stretch fonts. Number four, look for and use the hottest trendiest font today.

Massimo: Okay. Today. And last but not least, for number five to round up fonts. Yep. Okay. Don't worry about legibility. Don't know. It's overrated. It's not a big deal. 

Shawn: Nobody reads. Yeah. And then you can get a career in designing metal album cover phones. Right? Well, the hairy, you know that band names. Hey. Right. That shit's coming.

Shawn: Real. That's huge. Yeah. Yeah. I can't read any of that shit. 

Massimo: All right. Now we're gonna move over to Awesome Design. Oh, okay. We've got six, you know, we've got another five points here. Four. Design. Design. Okay. All right. So again, these are good ways to kill your design career. Okay. You think you got some design chops?

Massimo: Wait till you use this shit. Yeah. Try this stuff. You'll be out in no time, guaranteed. Yeah. Okay. Number six. Yes. Okay. Look for the hottest trends out there [00:12:00] right now. Yeah. And use them. Yes. Okay. I'm talking like hard couple letters. Yeah. I'm talking like liquified font. Yes. I'm talking about trends that are out there right now that make no fucking sense.

Massimo: Yes, yes. Okay. And use that shit. Okay. Yes. And there's a whole bunch of reasons. Number one, I mean, cuz you've got no style for yourself. Yeah. So you want. To jump on these trends that are, they're here today, right. And the best part about this, yeah, okay. Yeah. It's reoccurring revenue because you're gonna jump on a trend and deliver to your customer this year.

Massimo: Yeah. Well, what, next year? You gotta go back and be like, dude, upset. Nobody's doing that anymore. Yes. We gotta, we gotta change some shit. Right? So again, it's like you've constantly got this stream of business. Because you're going back, you gotta update their shit to the new slated shit 

Shawn: you. Yeah, it's a great, actually, that's pretty smart.

Shawn: That's a great revenue generator. Yeah, absolutely. You go in, I could see the pitch, like, I don't know who the hell designed your trendy shit last year, but you gotta go, wait, what's the, you're already [00:13:00] So, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But this is the hip 

Massimo: stop. It's different. Yeah, it's different. All right, so number six.

Massimo: So again, look for and use the trendiest trends to your customer. Love it. Love it. Okay. Number seven. Mm-hmm. Use lots of colors. Oh, lots of colors. The, yes. Okay. This whole limited palette colored bullshit. Yes. Forget that. Yes. Okay. I'm talking Use pastels with neons. Yes. Mix that shit up. You know, throw in some effects, like metal effects, right?

Massimo: Yes. They don't necessarily have to all mesh together because they shouldn't. Right. Because again, then you look like. A normal graphic designer, and this isn't about being normal. This is about, you need to amp this shit up to destroy that fucking career. Right, exactly. So again, don't be scared to mix up your colors.

Massimo: Yes. And even if they don't make sense. Yep. That's all right. Yes. Because that's what this is about. Yes. Using all these colors. 

Shawn: Exactly. And designers out there, we're not using enough plaid. Right patterns. These patterns, again, PLA patterns, really complicated 

Massimo: shit. Come on. The [00:14:00] more patterns on top, you know?

Massimo: And again, don't be scared to make patterns clash, right? Yes. Clashing is 

Shawn: where it's at. Dude clashing 

Massimo: his hip. There was a fucking band named after that. Okay? Yes, that's right. So don't be scared to mix up these patterns with these colors. We need more of this. We need 

Shawn: more. Yeah, we need more of that. I love that.

Shawn: I love 

Massimo: that. All right. Number eight. Yeah. Use colors. That actually means something to you. Oh, okay. Not necessarily the client's brand, right? Yes, folks. Not necessarily their customers or the product. Yes. Okay. Yes. I mean, in all fairness, this whole color psychology thing, like, come on, colors can't speak.

Massimo: It's not like the psychologist has the color on the couch and it's like, so blue. Why are you feeling, how the fuck do they know? Seriously, like this is all a bunch of, you know, malarky in my opinion. Okay. Absolutely. You are the design designer here. Okay. So make sure you use colors that speak to you [00:15:00] Yes.

Massimo: You know? Yes. And mean something to you, and make sure you share that. Okay? Yes. Because that's more important than whatever this, this color theory stuff that they say, because again, theoretically it's all 

Shawn: the same, right? 

Massimo: I mean Exactly. We were all in a black and white world. They would all be the same. 

Shawn: So just cause it's color and like, fuck yeah.

Shawn: Geez. If you, if you want to use blue in a food logo, go ahead. Right. 

Massimo: That works again, right? Yeah. It speaks to you sell it. Yes. All right. Number nine. When you get a new job. Mm-hmm. Okay. The first thing you do. Mm-hmm. You go online and you find a fucking template. Oh, there's so many templates. Oh my. Out there, dude.

Massimo: Yes. There is sites on top of sites. They will give you three templates, dollar templates, $5 templates. Yes. Like they do the job for you. Yes. Right. They'll save you time. Yes. They will save you money. Yes. Right. You don't have to work as hard. It's perfect. Fuck dude. Like seriously. Extra long lunch, dude. Yes.

Massimo: Only [00:16:00] suckers come up with ideas from scratch. I mean, why would you do that? Right? Yeah. So when you get a job, okay, yeah. Yep. Go out and find a template. Yes. Okay. Just mash that shit in somebody else's design. Yes. You can make it work. Yeah. And if you come across that same template used elsewhere. Yep. You just tell the customer, dude, it's fucking popular works, which is why we're doing this.

Massimo: Do you wanna be unique? Like then you're just guessing, yeah. This has been used all over the world. That's 

Shawn: right. Piggyback off that success. Come on. Done. Right, 

Massimo: done. 

Shawn: That is brilliant. Yes. Don't do stuff for yourself. Not at all. Not at all. 

Massimo: All right. Number 10. Okay. Number 10. Don't stress so much about Oh yeah.

Massimo: The messaging. Oh, and if it's clear. Okay. Right. People are smart enough to understand. Yeah. Figure it in a design. Yeah. Okay. Like they're smart enough, you know, they're not gonna read it anyway. No. So what's the point he reads? Exactly. Yeah. It's all about how good it looks. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah. Like this is something, [00:17:00] right, that you want to be like.

Massimo: Look what I designed. Right? Yes. You know, and it doesn't matter if they scrunch up their face and they're like, is that a food ad? And you're like, no, it's, it's cooking. It's for a ghetto blaster. Right. Like cuz again, it's all about the design. Yes. People are smart enough to get that. Totally, yes. And if they don't look, they shouldn't be looking 

Shawn: at it anyway.

Shawn: You don't want them as a customer anyway. They 

Massimo: probably not the fucking target market. They don't understand. Yes. Cuz they're dumb. Yeah, my, exactly. Yes. 

Shawn: So yeah, you've got the latest fonts, the latest trends, all you add, you're doing the right thing. Right? Absolutely. Right. If they can't figure it out, then that's on them.

Massimo: It's on them, it's not on you. That's right. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant. All right, so the five for design of chorus. Okay. Look for trends and use them. Use lots and lots of colors and patterns. Color psychology, what? Just use colors that have that mean something to you. Colors on the couch. Come on.

Massimo: Yeah, come on. Right. That was great. When you get a new job, don't work too hard. Just look for [00:18:00] fucking templates. That's right. Right. Just go out there and find something else that's been 

Shawn: done. You're a boss. You respect that, right? Absolutely right. 

Massimo: Geez, that's an easy. Sell, in my opinion. And last but not least, don't stress about people understanding the message.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. Because again, it's all about the look. It's not about anything else. Right? Yeah. All right. So those are the first 10 that are out the way. Lots of good, valuable information here on how to destroy your graphic design career. 

Shawn: This is a gold mine, 

Massimo: I'm telling you. Okay. All right, now we'll run to the good stuff.

Massimo: Okay. Now you're on to. The designer. Okay. As a designer. As a designer, okay. Okay. So this is where shit gets real. All right? Okay. Because think some of this stuff is, this is where it's important. Okay? Yeah. Yeah. So like number 11, don't fucking take breaks. No. It just slows you down. Yes. Right. Again, you lose momentum, right?

Massimo: Yeah. And you don't want that. Yeah. Instead, work late. Okay. Drink a ton of coffee, smoke, drink, speed, whatever it [00:19:00] fucking takes. Okay. The goal here is to get your heart rate comfortably at 120 BPMs, right All the time. All the time. All the time. Okay. That's productivity. Yes. This whole rest, that's work life balance.

Massimo: Come on. Like again. Come on guys. That's right. Like seriously, if your heart's not sounding like a freaking, like a drum and bass album, dude, you're not doing it right. Yeah. 

Shawn: Okay. You're not getting four hours of sleep at night, then you're not doing this free job. 

Massimo: And that's only after a ra, dude. No, that's right.

Massimo: Holy shit. So again, honestly, and the nice part about it is when you start getting into those kind of habits, right? Yes. You don't even have to exercise anymore. No. Because your heart's going so fast, you're just constantly burning calories. Right? It's perfect. So, you know, again, don't take breaks. Don't take 

Shawn: breaks for yourself.

Shawn: You're gonna live forever anyway. Right? Absolutely. Number 12. 

Massimo: Okay. Be a lone wolf. 

Shawn: Oh, this is the best. Yes. Right. Being 

Massimo: part of a team for, woo. It's lame. It's fucking lame guys. It's so overrated. Right. People, [00:20:00] honestly, on a team, are literally just there to serve you. They're just there to pander to your knees.

Massimo: Okay. You're, you know, like, use them and move on. 

Shawn: That's right. Okay. Get what you can from them and 

Massimo: move on. Right. Cause you can't learn anything from them. No, they're not. So it's like, you know, you done, this is better than you. Right. Get this done. Move on. Right. Yeah. In fact, you don't even have to share shit with them.

Shawn: No. Okay. No. Why would you do that, right? Absolutely. You're a 

Massimo: wolf. Be a lone wolf. Yeah, a lone wolf. Okay. Cause you don't need anybody else in this space. Okay? Could you do the howl

Massimo: lone wolf?

Shawn: That's awesome. Yes, Lord. 

Massimo: Wolfen it. Number 13. Okay. Take credit for everyth fucking thing. Oh, everything. Wow. I'm not talking about just the shit you do. Yeah. I didn't even take credit for the shit you other people don't do. Yeah. See cuz again, if you were in that space mm-hmm. And somebody else presented something, that's a good idea.

Massimo: Yep. It's [00:21:00] to your benefit to let the people hire up know that it was because of you. Yes. Right. Being the lone wolf. Yeah. They're just sucking from you, man. So again, you should be taking credit for everything, even if, if they just ask you for your opinion. Yeah. Well, you fucking did the whole job. Yes. Right?

Massimo: Because again, you gave them your opinion. And your opinion is what counts. Right? Yes. So again, take credit for everything. Yeah. Because don't forget, you are the lone wolf. Yes. 

Shawn: Yeah. And you're better than everyone else. Remember that. Okay? Always remember that. Yes. 

Massimo: Always remember that. Okay, number 14. Fuck.

Massimo: Constructive 

Shawn: criticism. Oh, fuck that. You don't tell me, right? You don't tell me shit. Right? No, you don't. As if the creative director or your customer, customer 

Massimo: or you know your professor or other designers as if they know more than you. Okay. Like seriously? Yeah. Do they know who you are? Yeah. See, right?

Massimo: Like again. You know, they're just, honestly, I feel that they are just trying to hold 

Shawn: you back. They are. They are. Yes. Absolutely. Someone who gets 

Massimo: it. Yes. [00:22:00] Right. And again, you know, like, again, you have the answers. Mm. You fucking know everything. Why else would they have hired you? Exactly. Would they have asked you to work for them?

Massimo: Yes. You have all they're fucking lucky. To even have you in their whole circles. That's, that's right, dude. Like, seriously, right? Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. 

Shawn: Creative criticism. Oh, that is so overrated. Mm-hmm. And so bad for you. Yeah. 

Massimo: Fucking right. Fucking right. Number 15. Oh, okay. Okay. Spend less time. Practicing and honing your craft.

Massimo: Oh dude, why would you do that? Why would you do that when you can go out live life, get drunk party, be a fucking rockstar. Yeah. Yes. Geo graphic designer. Yeah. You're a rockstar. You, do you really fucking think that Mick Jagger or Jimi Hendricks practice? No. Seriously. Why should you? Yeah. You're fucking good at what you do.

Massimo: Yeah. You don't need to work on it after hours or on your free time. Yeah, like. That's your [00:23:00] free time to, to, to, to like give yourself the credit and, and, and you know you earned this. Yes. Right? Yes. I can go strut your stuff. Yeah. Right. And be who you deserve 

Shawn: to be. Yes. James Martin should be looking at my work and being inspired.

Shawn: See? 

Massimo: Exactly. I think I'm getting it now. Yeah. See, dude, I'm telling you, man. I'm telling you. So again, spend less time practicing you guys. Okay. 

Shawn: That's, that's all right. That's 

Massimo: dumb number 16. Yep. Don't fucking bother using a design process. Oh, it's all in your head. Okay. It is, yes. Like seriously, it's all in your head.

Massimo: And again. Design processes. They're too structured. They're too, oh, I hate that. Do this, do this, do this. Like, I mean, again, we're creative, right? Like the way you go about things changes every day based on the project, based on the time of day, where you're at, how you're feeling. Even the fucking music. Yes.

Massimo: But if I had a design process, I would stick to that every time and I would always get the same kind of result [00:24:00] back. Yeah. Like I'm creative. I don't want that. 

Shawn: No, it should. Your design should be dependent on the seasons, right? Dude. 

Massimo: Right. It's in you. Yes. Okay. It's in you. And again, that's right. You can just, I've done this enough.

Shawn: I know this. I, I got this, I got this, I got this. Dude, I'm not gonna leave out any key points cuz you know, whether, I guess I didn't need 'em, if that was the thing. Of 

Massimo: course not. Right? Because again, you know 

Shawn: why, if I forgot a stab. You're the lone wolf buddy. Because I'm the lone wolf. That's right. That's right.

Massimo: Mm-hmm. Oh, old. Last but not least. Mm-hmm. Okay. Last but not least, under this whole designer thing. Yeah. And don't even think about bothering with those old fucking designers from last century. No. Why would you go look up like Paul Rand or SA Bass? Who's bass or mamo? I mean, again, In all fairness, what do they know?

Massimo: Yeah. About today's design? Nothing. Like they didn't have the internet, they didn't have to worry about social media and shit. What do they know? Yeah. What do [00:25:00] they bring? Yeah. To help you be a better designer. Yeah. Nothing like, like seriously, they're, they're so last century. Yeah. Literally, possibly. Could you learn from a web design about these guys who didn't even know what the internet was 

Shawn: exactly.

Shawn: Is Did he use bubble fonts? No. Right. No. No, no, no. 

Massimo: Right. He doesn't know. Like absolutely nothing to do at all. Yeah. Like, I mean, does he understand internet grids? No. Yeah. No. Come on. He didn't. His grids were on paper. Like that makes no paper is not the web. Dude. Yes. Come on. Is so fucking different. Oh, fucking can't.

Massimo: I can't believe people do 

Shawn: that. Yeah. Yeah. That's, wow. That's. Yeah. Yeah. You, you use, you use that kind of stuff, then you're gonna get ahead and you don't want that. No. You kill your career. 

Massimo: Right? This is about killing your career guys. That's right. This is it. Okay. Yeah. So as a designer, okay. The things to remember.

Massimo: Yeah. Don't fucking take breaks. Nope. Okay. Speaking about taking breaks, burn out, 

Shawn: burn yourself out. That's how you do [00:26:00] that. Don't take 

Massimo: breaks. Be a lone wolf. Number 12. Yes. Number 13. Take credit for everything. Very important. Okay. Everything, number. You didn't do it. Hell yeah. Especially if you didn't do it.

Massimo: Number 14, fuck creative C. Yes. Constructive 

Shawn: criticism. Yes. 

Massimo: Screw that, man. Nobody's got you on that one. That's right. Number 15. Spend less time practicing and more time rewarding yourself for being awesome. 

Shawn: Yes, exactly. You got this. You got this? Yeah. Yeah. You got this. You don't need help. 

Massimo: Number 16. Okay.

Massimo: Don't even bother using a design process because it's only, it's only gonna hold you back. Okay. Be flexible and fluid. And number 17. Yeah. Don't bother with those dinosaur design legends like the Paul Rands and the Sabas. Oh, guys. Come on man. What? What can you possibly learn? Yes. This is the internet age.

Massimo: Yeah. Know this is the digital age. Yeah. And they were not. Yes, 

Shawn: exactly. There is. All right. All right. A bunch of old dinosaurs, those 

Massimo: guys. Now we're gonna finish off with customers and [00:27:00] brands. Oh. So if you really want to destroy your careers, this is awesome. Okay. Customers and brands. Oh, I can, I think I 

Shawn: know where this is going.

Shawn: Like 

Massimo: number 18. Yeah. Okay. Spend less time working on customer's work and more time creating fake shit. Oh, so you could like post it all over social media and be like, I did this. Yes, I did that. Look at, look, I just, I just created something for a company that doesn't exist for a name, that absolutely makes no fucking sense.

Massimo: This is what design is all about, right? Like again, your customers work, eh? Just get it done and over the way with Yes. Because you don't actually want to post that online. Online, cuz it's not. Cool enough, it's not 

Shawn: cool. Exactly right. Mm-hmm. This company I have is called Bear Paw. Yeah. And I've made a paw with a bear.

Shawn: Whoa. So you see what I mean? You see how cool that is. Incredible. Right? 

Massimo: Versus you know, something a little bit more normal that might actually pay the bills. That might actually, yeah. Customers, no. They're gonna look at Bear Pawn and be like, 

Shawn: I want that. That's awesome. I don't [00:28:00] know what the hell Bear Paws is a company, but Exactly.

Shawn: It should be a company. It 

Massimo: should be a company. 

Shawn: Cause it's cool if it, and I wanna show people, here's the logo. 

Massimo: Exactly. Dude, ring me. Exactly. That's the trick. Right. Fake it in this world. Right? Right. Because again, the real customer shit's not cool. So spend less time putting your heart into that. Yeah. Or, and more time putting your heart in fake shit into fake stuff.

Massimo: Just putting it out there on social. Right. That's important. Yes. If you have to even honestly look through other people's social and steal their shit and just change it a little bit and call it your own. Right. Again, you are 

Shawn: the, the lone wolf. Yeah, that's right. You do what you want to do. Oh. 

Massimo: Number 19.

Massimo: Okay. Whatever you do, don't look needy and reply to customer's emails right away. Why would why? You know, why would you do That's, it's 

Shawn: like dating you. You wait, you wait for five days. You wanna 

Massimo: make them wait a a couple days. You wait a couple days. Yeah. In replying to their emails, and then when you do, yeah, [00:29:00] you let them know how busy and important you are.

Massimo: Which is why it took you so many days to get to them. Yes. You don't want to come across as needy. Like you, you want to earn their business. Mm-hmm. And you want to keep them happy because again, it's not about them. No, it's about you. It's right. Right. And again, if, if you look needy Yeah. Dude, that's not good.

Massimo: That's not good for the walls smell. Right? Yeah. Yeah. You know, and honestly mm-hmm. Remind them how important you are. Yeah. When you do finally get to them, cuz then they'll feel special that you actually finally got back to them. That's right. Geez. Later. They're really 

Shawn: lucky they have you as a client.

Shawn: They are. 

Massimo: They are. Yeah. And if they don't see that, 

Shawn: yeah. Do you really want them? Yeah. No. I don't know. I don't know. 

Massimo: I don't know about that. They're bad news when you do actually get back to them, you know, whether it's via email, phone in person. Be fucking arrogant. Oh dude. Oh yes. You know. Because this way customers will actually think that you know your shit.

Massimo: Yeah. They'll believe it. Oh yeah. A hundred percent. Yes. They will believe you know your shit. Humility [00:30:00] is for people who are insecure and have complexes. Complexes, Ooh, look at me feelings. I'm here. I'll put you ahead of me cause you're the customer. Like, that's not cool shit. Customers don't want that.

Massimo: Right? If you're arrogant, they'll realize how good you actually are and they will buy into. All this shit. You feed them big time. Big time. It's so important 

Shawn: these days. Yeah, absolutely. And would it help to pepper in a bunch of buzzwords too? You what? You're talking buzz words? Buzzword 

Massimo: and namedropping and namedropping.

Massimo: The companies that you fucking actually never worked for, right? Yeah. Oh yeah. But I walked into TD Bank the other day and I was telling the teller how I thought that their cards in behind the counter weren't very good. Yeah. I just consulted for them. Yeah. So I told them I consult for TD Bank. Yes. In Canada.

Massimo: Yeah. Big fucking bank. Yeah. I told the teller what I thought and now Yep. And now I'm consulting. That's why you have to remind, that's name drop buzzword. Right. This way you remind them how important you actually are. That's right. Okay. That's right Again. Okay. Remember, [00:31:00] be arrogant. Okay.

Shawn: Oh, this is fucking ridiculous. I love this. 

Massimo: Number 21 on how to destroy your graphic design career customers and brands. Number 21. Always be fucking heard. Okay. Always. Oh, always be heard. You are the fucking expert. Yes. Okay. Make sure they know this and make sure they hear you right. Okay. Like yeah, when they're talking.

Massimo: Yeah. And giving their point of view on something. Nod. Be polite. Yeah. Right. No. And then as soon as you hear a break, yes. A space. A space. 

Shawn: Then just boom. There you go. There you go. Pounce. That's 

Massimo: it. Pounce like the wolf. You are. Okay. That's what you gotta do because Yes. You gotta make sure that your point Yes.

Massimo: Is being heards. Yeah. They're just filling up the, the room with noise because. Yeah, they have 

Shawn: to. Exactly. You don't even have to listen to 'em. Well, no, really. Right. It's just, 

Massimo: you just gotta wait for that pause. You just gotta wait. Till's it rejects, and then you pounce. Yeah. Right. That's the important part here.

Massimo: Right? [00:32:00] Like, because I, I mean, they really don't have much to add to the conversation because they did hire you cuz you're the 

Shawn: expert. Yeah, yeah. That's right. Exactly. 

Massimo: Absolutely. So again, always be heard. Be the expert and remind them this. Okay. Remind them of this. Number 22. When you are talking to customers.

Massimo: Yep. Okay. Always use your own personal opinion on matters. That's cool. Whether it's it's design, it's business, right. Data, schmatta. Yeah. You know, demographics, you know, experience that shit really doesn't matter because you have all the fucking answers. Yeah. Because in the past two years experience that you have mm-hmm.

Massimo: In the business, you have fucking learned it all. You're on YouTube at least. Five hours a day, you know, fucking everything. So again, don't worry about data. Always give your opinion. Yeah, because that's all that matters in 

Shawn: this. That's right. You know best. Fuck yeah. I don't understand Right numbers. 

Massimo: [00:33:00] Geez.

Massimo: Data. Like, come on. What? How has data ever helped anybody? No, it's never helped anybody. It's never helped in this, no, it's pointless. Block that shit. Right. 

Shawn: All right. Okay. Number 23. Number 23. 

Massimo: Don't track time against customers jobs. Oh, I mean, why would you? You know your shit. Yeah. Okay. You're an expert. You know how long shit takes.

Massimo: That's right. Right. All that's gonna happen when you track time against jobs. Yeah. Is it slows you down. Yeah. Really. And that's, you have to take a break. Yeah. And think for a second how long that actually took. It might take more than two seconds. Mm-hmm. It might take five seconds. Yeah. 10. Who's got that time?

Massimo: Yeah. Like, as if that's gonna help you quote in the future. Because again, you already, you've, you crushed a job, dude. 

Shawn: No, exactly. 

Massimo: You no. Yeah. And tracking time. Doesn't help. Uh, it, it might help the, the weak designers, but you're the fucking lone wolf. You don't need that shit. You're a rock shit rockstar.

Massimo: Yeah. You are a rockstar. No. And tracking time doesn't help. You know, you. Whether you decide to build by the hour, by project, you've got all the answers, dude. You do pull that shit [00:34:00] outta outta your ass. Yes. You'll make money. And I mean, again, you'll just, the way you spend, the way you party, it's just gonna be flowing in, man.

Massimo: Yeah. 

Shawn: Yeah. Two years in the business, you know exactly how this shit goes. Hell yeah, dude. You know you. Exactly how every job is gonna come out. Boom, boom. Yes. Done. 

Massimo: Number 24. Yes. Okay. We're almost done guys. We're almost done. Number 24. When you're working on your customers brands, if you think you can make their brand look better, cooler.

Massimo: Do it. Oh, for sure. Often customers, brands have really boring fonts. They do. I can jazz that shit up because now you're using all the fonts. Yeah. Their colors are often like a single color, maybe two. Yeah. Because you know they want, they want to be known for a color, but dude, yeah, we just said use. All the colors in the world.

Massimo: Right, right. You need to expand that shit. Yes. You have to get creative with their, because let's face it, often their brands are boring. Yeah. And like, I mean, what's the benefit of like not doing this? They will thank you. Yes, exactly. For changing that shit form. [00:35:00] Once 

Shawn: they see that. Frosty gradient that you got going on there in their, in their work.

Massimo: They're gonna love that shit, dude. You know? Especially if they like even go as far as like try to like one up you and present you with a brand standard guide. Like, okay. Especially one that, another designer created shit that other designer did it just to fuck you over. He, they, they just did it because they want, they want you to follow their path, their idea.

Massimo: But no, no, no, no, no. We can change that chain. Yeah. You don't need brand standard. God 

Shawn: no. Yeah, let's just no's just stupid. That's, that smells like process stupid, man. I, I don't want to hear that. You 

Massimo: are the expert. Yeah. And if it's boring, Fix that shit. Yeah. Okay. That's okay. Fix that shit. And last but not least, number 25.

Massimo: Consistency is boring. Oh, okay. When you see a brand that looks the same over and over, there's nothing more boring than that. Every 

Shawn: time I see it, I get the same thing thing out of it. It's almost like it's. Familiar to me. I, no, dude, you can't. He is terrible. I hate that. You're tired of [00:36:00] that. You, their 

Massimo: boys boring.

Massimo: He god, to mix that shit up. Right. You know what? Their customers will Thank you. Yes. If you get creative Yes. With their brand. Yes. Because again, they need to, I mean, I'm tired. Be tired of every week after week, if, you know, I see the same ad or next week's looks like the last one. Exactly. With a 

Shawn: different title.

Shawn: With a different title and, and like what They got 

Massimo: me. Yeah. Oh, you got me guys. It looks the same. You just hard and didn't fucking, you know, wanna work hard. So you took the same look, you took the same campaign idea and you just changed around the words and the people. Yeah. Like what benefit does that do?

Massimo: That doesn't do any good, dude. Everyone should be different. Yes. Yes. Because again, it's always exciting. It's always new. Yeah. And I mean, people will never get bored with 

Shawn: that shit. Yes, exactly. Dude. A hundred percent consistency is for his last week. Yeah, dude, man. 

Massimo: No. Consistency in brands. Yes. Is 

Shawn: boring.

Shawn: Yeah. Is way boring. 

Massimo: Right. So again, these are our last set. Okay. Of [00:37:00] how to kill your career. Okay. So number 18, spend less time on customer's work and more on that fake shit and post it everywhere. Number 19. Don't look needy and reply to their emails right away. 

Shawn: Yeah. Don't, I mean, again, you're not doing yourself a favor.

Shawn: Yeah. No. That's number 20. Stupid. Be 

Massimo: arrogant. Yes. Be very arrogant. Arrogant. Does Everybody loves an client designer that they do. Right? They wish they were us, right? Yes. Oh, number 21, always be heard. Yeah. You are the experts. Yes. So make sure they always hear 

Shawn: you. You are the loudest voice. Absolutely.

Shawn: That's right 

Massimo: in the room. Right. Be heard. Okay. When you're talking to customers. Okay. Always give them your personal opinion. Always Your personal opinion. Number 22. Okay. Yeah, it's very important. Yeah. You're the expert. They hired you. That's huge. So make sure you use your opinion. Yeah. Not data. No. Not experience or history.

Massimo: No. No. Your opinion. Yes. Number 23. Don't track time against jobs. No, because you know how profitable you. R. Exactly right. Yep. Number 24, when working on your customer's [00:38:00] brand. Okay. If you can make it look better, please do use all those fonts and all those colors. Yes. Fuck yes, they will. Thank you. Okay. Yeah, nothing's worse than a boring brand.

Massimo: And number 25. Consistency in brands is boring. Okay. Their customers will thank you. Yes. If you mix shit up. 

Shawn: Yes. Right? Yes. People love, generally love to be confused. Uh, generally when, when they see, when they see something that they're familiar with, and then it changes completely. Love it. Love that. It's so good, right?

Shawn: It's refreshing, isn't it? Geez. Speaking of a confusing, wow. This was, this was the, I I feel like we should have had white shirts on for this 

Massimo: big, black glasses combed 

Shawn: our hair. We had some,

Shawn: yeah. Oh, wow. 

Massimo: That's, but the funny thing is, listening to this, it sounds so fucking idiotic. It, it 

Shawn: does. Absolutely. Like you're saying this [00:39:00] stuff and I'm like, holy crap. Right. 

Massimo: It's like, duh. Obviously not, and this is the whole gameplay with this. Yeah. I, it's just every time you're reading this, it's like you're, you're like, God, you're, this is the worst thing you could do.

Massimo: And that's why I thought this would be fucking, this is just, yes, this is just something different. And I think this is, this is 

Shawn: really, really good. I'm moving to Italy. Cause the tv, the TV sounds awesome there. Right, right. The 

Massimo: game shows they're great. They really play with your mind, don't they? Sory levels.

Massimo: So now onto the good news. Yes. Next week's podcast,

Massimo: we interviewed Mr. James Martin. Check the Shadow Made by James. I mean, the dude was hilarious. He's exactly what you'd expect. And that much more. Mm-hmm. There was some shit today that was just, that blew me fucking away. Mm-hmm. Like, we wanna talk about like, I mean, again, we don't just talk about the, the, the light shit.

Massimo: We go deep and Wow. Some of the stuff he shared. [00:40:00] Yes. I was shocked 

Shawn: about it. I was too, I was just like, I did not 

Massimo: expect that. And I mean, I think that's what made this so much more special kid. Yeah. Dude is so human. And again, same with Joplin and Yeah. And Jana. And when we talked with Peters like, yeah, it's, we want to get to the human side of these people.

Massimo: Yes. Yeah. Because we're not perfect, no matter how big these guys seem to be. 

Shawn: Right. And the funny thing with that is too, is like, you know what we've, when we've interviewed people, you, you really, you get the sense of what has shaped these people mm-hmm. Into the design, like how they became designers, who they are Yes.

Shawn: And who they are. Absolutely. And it's like these things, All kind of culminate and we all have that common thread, right? Yeah. Do we all have, we've all wanted to be this or do this ever since we were young kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah. Although James did seem to kind of have come 

Massimo: a little different time come to it, 

Shawn: but thank God he got here.

Shawn: Dude. He is. He a 

Massimo: very talented designer. What a 

Shawn: wonderful human being. Exactly. He was 

Massimo: such a nice man. He was such a pleasure to interview. Yes. We hope to interview him a second time, a third time. Yes. Or even just like meet, hang out [00:41:00] with him, which hopefully we're gonna have the chance in the near future, I hope.

Massimo: Hope that's gonna happen. I'm excited. Yeah. So please, guys, come back next week. Mm-hmm. I mean, go crazy with this episode. Share it. Be like, you guys are fucked. I don't know what you're thinking in this one, but I mean, honestly, it was so fun to do. It was so fun to come up with these and it was like brain chunks.

Massimo: So again, share, let us know what you think you like, you don't like. I, I think we might chop some of these up. You know, share 'em around and social. I, 

Shawn: there's a lot of fun to do. It was very weird. Yeah, right. It was very really 

Massimo: cool. Oh, geez. 

Shawn: We're not like that, right? Yeah, we have, we're, yeah. In case you get, you didn't get it.

Shawn: We're, we're highly joking here. Oh my God. 

Massimo: I would, I would love to be somebody who caught in halfway through the episode 

Shawn: and be like, who? They lost their mom. The hell's happened. Oh my God. Amazing. Well, let's see if that actually happens. Let's see if we can't confuse some people. Please listen to the beginning for context.

Massimo: Um, so return next week for James. Yes. Um, please, you know what to do with this episode. You know, subscribe, [00:42:00] share, do all that fun stuff. You know what, I, you must get tired of hearing that at the end. But that's all right. We appreciate everything and everybody that listens to the show. Totally. I genuinely hope you enjoyed this one.

Massimo: Yes. 

Shawn: And you will be in for a treat listening to James. Absolutely. It's gonna be a bangs, a great treat. And I believe you think, do you think it'll be stretched out? Two, two episodes? Oh, absolutely. It'll be, I was gonna say full episode. It went quite a long 

Massimo: time. And there's, which is great. There's nothing to edit.

Massimo: He said, you don't have to edit a single thing in this. So, okay. He 

Shawn: didn't even want to hear what, what he had to say. And I was like, so that guy is raw and as pure as you're gonna get. Absolutely right. What a fucking tree. So beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. That was really good. Please tune in. All right, everybody. My name's Moz.

Shawn: My name's Sean. Don't be creative and don't be angry 

Massimo: and.

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